Discussion:
L. Ron Hubbard : RAPIST
(too old to reply)
Dilbert Perkins
2005-12-05 06:38:29 UTC
Permalink
Heidi Forrester (not her real name), ex-Sea Org, made the following
statement:

In late 1975, I was told to report to the Hubbard Communications Office.
The senior officer there at the time, informed me that I was to report
to the Fifield Manor and go to the seventh floor. She gave me no other
information. I did this without knowing why I was going.

At the Manor, I was directed to the elevator and went to the seventh
floor. The entire floor was elaborately furnished to the point of
suffocation. An S.O. member appeared and showed me to a door that was
partly open.

I went into a very large living room with heavy curtains, pile carpet,
overstuffed chairs and clean to the point of obsession.

Sitting on one of the chairs, drinking what looked like sherry, was a
heavyset older man. He had reddish grey hair, slightly long in the back.
We was wearing a white shirt, black pants, black tie, and black shoes,
highly polished.

He didn't say a word and slowly got up, motioned me to follow him into
the next room.

I didn't know if it was Hubbard, and wondered if I was to have either an
auditing session or an interview. I followed him.

I found myself in a lavish bedroom. This still didn't worry me as
sometimes interviews and sessions were held in bedrooms at the Hollywood
Inn for staff.

There was a small table set up with an E-meter on it and again I thought
about a session.

Without a word he suddenly began to undress me.

I was repelled by him.

I did not want to sleep with him. Yet, I felt really chilled and cold to
the bone at that moment.

I acutely sensed real fear and danger in the room. In an instant I
realized the calculated power coming from this person. If I resisted I
knew that my punishment would be extreme.

His eyes were so blank, no emotion, no interaction, nothing was there.

I made the decision not to resist no matter what happened. I realized it
would be a bad mistake for me to do so. He seemed to be completely
divorced from reality. He was so strange that I realized that if I
provoked him he could be extremely dangerous.

I let him undress me without resisting.

I was totally unprepared for what happened next.

He lay on top of me.

As far as i can tell he had no erection. However, using his hand in some
way he managed to get his penis inside me.

Then for the next HOUR he did absolutely nothing at all. I mean nothing!

After the first twenty-five minutes I became about as frightened as I
have ever been in my live. I felt as if in some perverse way he was
telling me that he hated me as a female. I then began to feel that my
mind was being ripped away from me by force.

That was the worst of all. I really felt he "coveted" an aspect of my
personality and he wanted it. This was weird, total control on a level I
could not fathom at that time. I had no idea what was happening.

After half an hour I really thought I was going crazy. I couldn't move
my body from underneath him, and I could feel he still had no erection.

He wouldn't look at me, but instead kept his head averted to the side
and just gazed into space.

I had to discipline myself to keep from screaming because I felt I was
having a nervous breakdown.

Then I got the terrible thought that he was dead. He was hardly
breathing. Then I thought he would kill me too. My thoughts became very
morbid.

After an hour he got up and walked out.

I just lay there for ten minutes. Then mechanically I got dressed.
Instantly after that I began crying hysterically. I cried and cried and
cried.

I wasn't afraid of becoming pregnant. I was so afraid of whatever had
been going on in this man's head.

Finally when I couldn't cray anymore, I went downstairs and took a bus
back to ASHO.

I didn't say a word to anyone.

(From Messiah or Madman by Bent Corydon, pg 133-134)

L. Ron Hubbard : BIGAMIST
http://www.clambake.org/archive/ronthenut/bigamy.htm

L. Ron Hubbard : THIEF
http://www.ronthenut.org/thief.htm

L. Ron Hubbard DIED ON PSYCH DRUGS
http://home.earthlink.net/~snefru/deathoflrh/

L. Ron Hubbard : PARANOID AND SCHIZOPHRENIC
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/morejud.html

L. Ron Hubbard : CONVICTED OF FRAUD
http://www.lermanet.com/cos/LRHfraud.html

L. Ron Hubbard and BLACK MAGICK
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/wakefield/us-02.html

L. Ron Hubbard : COLLEGE DROPOUT
http://www.bible.ca/scientology-hubbard-grades.htm

L. Ron Hubbard : RACIST
http://thingy.apana.org.au/~fun/scn/racism/

L. Ron Hubbard 's FAKE WAR RECORD
http://www.ronthewarhero.org/

L. Ron Hubbard : IMPOTENT
http://www.ronthenut.org/limpwhat.htm

L. Ron Hubbard : WHORE MONGER
http://www.ronthenut.org/payforit.htm

L. Ron Hubbard : DRUG ADDICT
http://www.ronthenut.org/dope.htm

L. Ron Hubbard : SATANIST
http://www.ronthenut.org/antichri.htm

L. Ron Hubbard and ADOLF HITLER
http://www.ronthenut.org/hubbard-.htm

L. Ron Hubbard the PSYCH PATIENT
http://www.ronthenut.org/beg.htm
I am being defamed here
2005-12-05 06:55:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dilbert Perkins
Heidi Forrester (not her real name),
Of course not as she made all up. She should have stayed in the alps.
Just like Dave Rice, she should have stayed with her goats.

Barbara Schwarz

http://www.thunderstar.net/~Schwarz/

More about Dave Touretzky:
http://urlsnip.com/254524
http://urlsnip.com/402460

Other interesting websites:
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/
http://www.alarmgermany.org/
http://bernie.cncfamily.com/sc/sitemap.htm
http://www.cchr.org
http://www.datafilter.com/mc
http://www.freespeechstore.com
ARMYofONE
2005-12-05 14:52:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by I am being defamed here
Post by Dilbert Perkins
Heidi Forrester (not her real name),
Of course not as she made all up. She should have stayed in the alps.
Just like Dave Rice, she should have stayed with her goats.
you were never
kidnapped,raped,shot,libeled,married,divorced,implanted,institutionalised,ch
ased,starving,scared,angry,scientologist,freezing,hungry.
you made it all up
Post by I am being defamed here
Barbara Schwarz
http://www.thunderstar.net/~Schwarz/
http://urlsnip.com/254524
http://urlsnip.com/402460
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/
http://www.alarmgermany.org/
http://bernie.cncfamily.com/sc/sitemap.htm
http://www.cchr.org
http://www.datafilter.com/mc
http://www.freespeechstore.com
Simkatu
2005-12-05 06:58:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dilbert Perkins
Heidi Forrester (not her real name), ex-Sea Org, made the following
In late 1975, I was told to report to the Hubbard Communications Office.
The senior officer there at the time, informed me that I was to report
to the Fifield Manor and go to the seventh floor. She gave me no other
information. I did this without knowing why I was going.
At the Manor, I was directed to the elevator and went to the seventh
floor. The entire floor was elaborately furnished to the point of
suffocation. An S.O. member appeared and showed me to a door that was
partly open.
I went into a very large living room with heavy curtains, pile carpet,
overstuffed chairs and clean to the point of obsession.
Sitting on one of the chairs, drinking what looked like sherry, was a
heavyset older man. He had reddish grey hair, slightly long in the back.
We was wearing a white shirt, black pants, black tie, and black shoes,
highly polished.
He didn't say a word and slowly got up, motioned me to follow him into
the next room.
I didn't know if it was Hubbard, and wondered if I was to have either an
auditing session or an interview. I followed him.
I found myself in a lavish bedroom. This still didn't worry me as
sometimes interviews and sessions were held in bedrooms at the Hollywood
Inn for staff.
There was a small table set up with an E-meter on it and again I thought
about a session.
Without a word he suddenly began to undress me.
I was repelled by him.
I did not want to sleep with him. Yet, I felt really chilled and cold to
the bone at that moment.
I acutely sensed real fear and danger in the room. In an instant I
realized the calculated power coming from this person. If I resisted I
knew that my punishment would be extreme.
His eyes were so blank, no emotion, no interaction, nothing was there.
I made the decision not to resist no matter what happened. I realized it
would be a bad mistake for me to do so. He seemed to be completely
divorced from reality. He was so strange that I realized that if I
provoked him he could be extremely dangerous.
I let him undress me without resisting.
I was totally unprepared for what happened next.
He lay on top of me.
As far as i can tell he had no erection. However, using his hand in some
way he managed to get his penis inside me.
Then for the next HOUR he did absolutely nothing at all. I mean nothing!
After the first twenty-five minutes I became about as frightened as I
have ever been in my live. I felt as if in some perverse way he was
telling me that he hated me as a female. I then began to feel that my
mind was being ripped away from me by force.
That was the worst of all. I really felt he "coveted" an aspect of my
personality and he wanted it. This was weird, total control on a level I
could not fathom at that time. I had no idea what was happening.
After half an hour I really thought I was going crazy. I couldn't move
my body from underneath him, and I could feel he still had no erection.
He wouldn't look at me, but instead kept his head averted to the side
and just gazed into space.
I had to discipline myself to keep from screaming because I felt I was
having a nervous breakdown.
Then I got the terrible thought that he was dead. He was hardly
breathing. Then I thought he would kill me too. My thoughts became very
morbid.
After an hour he got up and walked out.
I just lay there for ten minutes. Then mechanically I got dressed.
Instantly after that I began crying hysterically. I cried and cried and
cried.
I wasn't afraid of becoming pregnant. I was so afraid of whatever had
been going on in this man's head.
Finally when I couldn't cray anymore, I went downstairs and took a bus
back to ASHO.
I didn't say a word to anyone.
(From Messiah or Madman by Bent Corydon, pg 133-134)
Holy cow.

I don't remember reading that story before.

LRH was quite a freak.
I am being defamed here
2005-12-05 07:45:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simkatu
Holy cow.
I don't remember reading that story before.
LRH was quite a freak.
Idiot. It is all fabricated.

Barbara Schwarz
Rogers. D.Scn.
2005-12-05 13:22:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by I am being defamed here
Post by Simkatu
Holy cow.
I don't remember reading that story before.
LRH was quite a freak.
Idiot. It is all fabricated.
Yo Barbara,

The isness is that Dilbert is a calculating psychotic (SP, we'd call him)
still fighting long-gone enemies who he feels continue to surround and
threaten him. He hates the idea they might get even stronger with
Scientology.

The next isness is that Nibs was in full missed withhold dramatization,
including the fabrication of stories against the one who missed the
withholds, in this case, his dad.

The next isness is that anybody who, in this day and age, reads a story like
that and immediately accepts it must indeed qualify as an idiot - as you
say - but better to express it, instead of "idiot" as a "no-cognition case."
Hey, anybody who immediately absorbs anything said is of the nature of a
hypnotic subject. And on that note, may I point out that ALL these people -
having no self-determined reach anyway - are low on the list of desirables
as Scientologists or clearing practitioners.

Sure, they can be nuisances, and their appetite for entheta rather
disgusting, but I daresay they have not and cannot and will not dissuade a
single big being from getting involved in Scientology.

Ironically, and this is NOT a good thing mind you, they are likely to
encourage a lot of people to get involved in Scientology. Alas, the
low-toned and reverse-flow type of person, but still, quite possibly
salvageable.

Just something to keep in mind.

Les.
Rogers. D.Scn.
2005-12-05 14:53:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rogers. D.Scn.
The next isness is that Nibs was in full missed withhold dramatization,
including the fabrication of stories against the one who missed the
withholds, in this case, his dad.
In passing, if Nibs had hung around for a couple more years, until Ron had
elucidated the missed withhold phenomena, it would have been a different
story today.

And, you know, when Ron was describing the phenomena, and how pc's with
missed withholds would go around fabricating amazing stories against their
auditors, I doubt Nibs was on his mind. I mean, I think Nibs was still just
hiding out at that time and, if nothing else, his fabrications were kept in
his immediate circle.

Les.
Muldoon
2005-12-05 15:05:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rogers. D.Scn.
Post by Rogers. D.Scn.
The next isness is that Nibs was in full missed withhold dramatization,
including the fabrication of stories against the one who missed the
withholds, in this case, his dad.
In passing, if Nibs had hung around for a couple more years, until Ron had
elucidated the missed withhold phenomena, it would have been a different
story today.
And, you know, when Ron was describing the phenomena, and how pc's with
missed withholds would go around fabricating amazing stories against their
auditors, I doubt Nibs was on his mind. I mean, I think Nibs was still just
hiding out at that time and, if nothing else, his fabrications were kept in
his immediate circle.
Les.
You bet Les. And Quentin Hubbard was another bad one.

I guess Ron Sr. didn't have much luck in the son department.

Too bad you weren't born as "L. Ron Hubbard Junior." You would have
done the old man proud.

Yup.
The SEGNPMSS
2005-12-05 13:46:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by I am being defamed here
Post by Simkatu
Holy cow.
I don't remember reading that story before.
LRH was quite a freak.
Idiot. It is all fabricated.
L. Ron Hubbard : RAPIST

http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/mom/Messiah_or_Madman.txt
Rev. David Rice, Esq.
2005-12-05 17:35:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simkatu
Post by Dilbert Perkins
Heidi Forrester (not her real name), ex-Sea Org, made the following
In late 1975, I was told to report to the Hubbard Communications Office.
The senior officer there at the time, informed me that I was to report
to the Fifield Manor and go to the seventh floor. She gave me no other
information. I did this without knowing why I was going.
At the Manor, I was directed to the elevator and went to the seventh
floor. The entire floor was elaborately furnished to the point of
suffocation. An S.O. member appeared and showed me to a door that was
partly open.
I went into a very large living room with heavy curtains, pile carpet,
overstuffed chairs and clean to the point of obsession.
Sitting on one of the chairs, drinking what looked like sherry, was a
heavyset older man. He had reddish grey hair, slightly long in the back.
We was wearing a white shirt, black pants, black tie, and black shoes,
highly polished.
He didn't say a word and slowly got up, motioned me to follow him into
the next room.
I didn't know if it was Hubbard, and wondered if I was to have either an
auditing session or an interview. I followed him.
I found myself in a lavish bedroom. This still didn't worry me as
sometimes interviews and sessions were held in bedrooms at the Hollywood
Inn for staff.
There was a small table set up with an E-meter on it and again I thought
about a session.
Without a word he suddenly began to undress me.
I was repelled by him.
I did not want to sleep with him. Yet, I felt really chilled and cold to
the bone at that moment.
I acutely sensed real fear and danger in the room. In an instant I
realized the calculated power coming from this person. If I resisted I
knew that my punishment would be extreme.
His eyes were so blank, no emotion, no interaction, nothing was there.
I made the decision not to resist no matter what happened. I realized it
would be a bad mistake for me to do so. He seemed to be completely
divorced from reality. He was so strange that I realized that if I
provoked him he could be extremely dangerous.
I let him undress me without resisting.
I was totally unprepared for what happened next.
He lay on top of me.
As far as i can tell he had no erection. However, using his hand in some
way he managed to get his penis inside me.
Then for the next HOUR he did absolutely nothing at all. I mean nothing!
After the first twenty-five minutes I became about as frightened as I
have ever been in my live. I felt as if in some perverse way he was
telling me that he hated me as a female. I then began to feel that my
mind was being ripped away from me by force.
That was the worst of all. I really felt he "coveted" an aspect of my
personality and he wanted it. This was weird, total control on a level I
could not fathom at that time. I had no idea what was happening.
After half an hour I really thought I was going crazy. I couldn't move
my body from underneath him, and I could feel he still had no erection.
He wouldn't look at me, but instead kept his head averted to the side
and just gazed into space.
I had to discipline myself to keep from screaming because I felt I was
having a nervous breakdown.
Then I got the terrible thought that he was dead. He was hardly
breathing. Then I thought he would kill me too. My thoughts became very
morbid.
After an hour he got up and walked out.
I just lay there for ten minutes. Then mechanically I got dressed.
Instantly after that I began crying hysterically. I cried and cried and
cried.
I wasn't afraid of becoming pregnant. I was so afraid of whatever had
been going on in this man's head.
Finally when I couldn't cray anymore, I went downstairs and took a bus
back to ASHO.
I didn't say a word to anyone.
(From Messiah or Madman by Bent Corydon, pg 133-134)
Holy cow.
I don't remember reading that story before.
LRH was quite a freak.
It appears to have been a Crowleian sex ritual. Hubbard's entire
life appears to have been filled with pathology regarding sex.

---
http://lastliberal.org / I support privatization of religion.
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"A picture of your sanity has been on milk cartons for years." - Plethora
Ralph Hilton
2005-12-05 23:12:33 UTC
Permalink
***@ho-tmail.com (Rev. David Rice, Esq.) wrote on Mon, 05 Dec 2005 17:35:29 GMT in
msg <***@news2.lightlink.com>, :

Some stupid jackasses are willing to use any piece of crap to attack LRH.
Even critics who know that this stupid creation is a lie refrain from comment.

Hubbard's whereabouts in late 1975 are detailed in critical websites. But the ignorant are
happy to accept heresay and utter BS as truth if it makes them look better.

This crap doesn't belong on a.c.t. but a few self righteous little pricks insist on
dumping their pathetic institutional cases there.

[Followups set to ARS only]
Post by Rev. David Rice, Esq.
Post by Simkatu
Post by Dilbert Perkins
Heidi Forrester (not her real name), ex-Sea Org, made the following
In late 1975, I was told to report to the Hubbard Communications Office.
The senior officer there at the time, informed me that I was to report
to the Fifield Manor and go to the seventh floor. She gave me no other
information. I did this without knowing why I was going.
At the Manor, I was directed to the elevator and went to the seventh
floor. The entire floor was elaborately furnished to the point of
suffocation. An S.O. member appeared and showed me to a door that was
partly open.
I went into a very large living room with heavy curtains, pile carpet,
overstuffed chairs and clean to the point of obsession.
Sitting on one of the chairs, drinking what looked like sherry, was a
heavyset older man. He had reddish grey hair, slightly long in the back.
We was wearing a white shirt, black pants, black tie, and black shoes,
highly polished.
He didn't say a word and slowly got up, motioned me to follow him into
the next room.
I didn't know if it was Hubbard, and wondered if I was to have either an
auditing session or an interview. I followed him.
I found myself in a lavish bedroom. This still didn't worry me as
sometimes interviews and sessions were held in bedrooms at the Hollywood
Inn for staff.
There was a small table set up with an E-meter on it and again I thought
about a session.
Without a word he suddenly began to undress me.
I was repelled by him.
I did not want to sleep with him. Yet, I felt really chilled and cold to
the bone at that moment.
I acutely sensed real fear and danger in the room. In an instant I
realized the calculated power coming from this person. If I resisted I
knew that my punishment would be extreme.
His eyes were so blank, no emotion, no interaction, nothing was there.
I made the decision not to resist no matter what happened. I realized it
would be a bad mistake for me to do so. He seemed to be completely
divorced from reality. He was so strange that I realized that if I
provoked him he could be extremely dangerous.
I let him undress me without resisting.
I was totally unprepared for what happened next.
He lay on top of me.
As far as i can tell he had no erection. However, using his hand in some
way he managed to get his penis inside me.
Then for the next HOUR he did absolutely nothing at all. I mean nothing!
After the first twenty-five minutes I became about as frightened as I
have ever been in my live. I felt as if in some perverse way he was
telling me that he hated me as a female. I then began to feel that my
mind was being ripped away from me by force.
That was the worst of all. I really felt he "coveted" an aspect of my
personality and he wanted it. This was weird, total control on a level I
could not fathom at that time. I had no idea what was happening.
After half an hour I really thought I was going crazy. I couldn't move
my body from underneath him, and I could feel he still had no erection.
He wouldn't look at me, but instead kept his head averted to the side
and just gazed into space.
I had to discipline myself to keep from screaming because I felt I was
having a nervous breakdown.
Then I got the terrible thought that he was dead. He was hardly
breathing. Then I thought he would kill me too. My thoughts became very
morbid.
After an hour he got up and walked out.
I just lay there for ten minutes. Then mechanically I got dressed.
Instantly after that I began crying hysterically. I cried and cried and
cried.
I wasn't afraid of becoming pregnant. I was so afraid of whatever had
been going on in this man's head.
Finally when I couldn't cray anymore, I went downstairs and took a bus
back to ASHO.
I didn't say a word to anyone.
(From Messiah or Madman by Bent Corydon, pg 133-134)
Holy cow.
I don't remember reading that story before.
LRH was quite a freak.
It appears to have been a Crowleian sex ritual. Hubbard's entire
life appears to have been filled with pathology regarding sex.
---
http://lastliberal.org / I support privatization of religion.
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"A picture of your sanity has been on milk cartons for years." - Plethora
--
Ralph Hilton
http://www.ralphhilton.org
C-Meter: http://www.cmeter.org
FZAOINT http://www.fzaoint.net
Muldoon
2005-12-06 06:31:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph Hilton
Some stupid jackasses are willing to use any piece of crap to attack LRH.
Even critics who know that this stupid creation is a lie refrain from comment.
Hubbard's whereabouts in late 1975 are detailed in critical websites. But the ignorant are
happy to accept heresay and utter BS as truth if it makes them look better.
In late 1975 Hubbard had discreetly flown to Florida, and could have
just as discreetly flown to southern California to look over his newly
acquired real estate holdings.

Hubbard was fully capable of such an action.
Post by Ralph Hilton
This crap doesn't belong on a.c.t. but a few self righteous little pricks insist on
dumping their pathetic institutional cases there.
This incident was excerpted from a lengthy and credible legal
affidavit.
Post by Ralph Hilton
[Followups set to ARS only]
Post by Rev. David Rice, Esq.
Post by Simkatu
Post by Dilbert Perkins
Heidi Forrester (not her real name), ex-Sea Org, made the following
In late 1975, I was told to report to the Hubbard Communications Office.
The senior officer there at the time, informed me that I was to report
to the Fifield Manor and go to the seventh floor. She gave me no other
information. I did this without knowing why I was going.
At the Manor, I was directed to the elevator and went to the seventh
floor. The entire floor was elaborately furnished to the point of
suffocation. An S.O. member appeared and showed me to a door that was
partly open.
I went into a very large living room with heavy curtains, pile carpet,
overstuffed chairs and clean to the point of obsession.
Sitting on one of the chairs, drinking what looked like sherry, was a
heavyset older man. He had reddish grey hair, slightly long in the back.
We was wearing a white shirt, black pants, black tie, and black shoes,
highly polished.
He didn't say a word and slowly got up, motioned me to follow him into
the next room.
I didn't know if it was Hubbard, and wondered if I was to have either an
auditing session or an interview. I followed him.
I found myself in a lavish bedroom. This still didn't worry me as
sometimes interviews and sessions were held in bedrooms at the Hollywood
Inn for staff.
There was a small table set up with an E-meter on it and again I thought
about a session.
Without a word he suddenly began to undress me.
I was repelled by him.
I did not want to sleep with him. Yet, I felt really chilled and cold to
the bone at that moment.
I acutely sensed real fear and danger in the room. In an instant I
realized the calculated power coming from this person. If I resisted I
knew that my punishment would be extreme.
His eyes were so blank, no emotion, no interaction, nothing was there.
I made the decision not to resist no matter what happened. I realized it
would be a bad mistake for me to do so. He seemed to be completely
divorced from reality. He was so strange that I realized that if I
provoked him he could be extremely dangerous.
I let him undress me without resisting.
I was totally unprepared for what happened next.
He lay on top of me.
As far as i can tell he had no erection. However, using his hand in some
way he managed to get his penis inside me.
Then for the next HOUR he did absolutely nothing at all. I mean nothing!
After the first twenty-five minutes I became about as frightened as I
have ever been in my live. I felt as if in some perverse way he was
telling me that he hated me as a female. I then began to feel that my
mind was being ripped away from me by force.
That was the worst of all. I really felt he "coveted" an aspect of my
personality and he wanted it. This was weird, total control on a level I
could not fathom at that time. I had no idea what was happening.
After half an hour I really thought I was going crazy. I couldn't move
my body from underneath him, and I could feel he still had no erection.
He wouldn't look at me, but instead kept his head averted to the side
and just gazed into space.
I had to discipline myself to keep from screaming because I felt I was
having a nervous breakdown.
Then I got the terrible thought that he was dead. He was hardly
breathing. Then I thought he would kill me too. My thoughts became very
morbid.
After an hour he got up and walked out.
I just lay there for ten minutes. Then mechanically I got dressed.
Instantly after that I began crying hysterically. I cried and cried and
cried.
I wasn't afraid of becoming pregnant. I was so afraid of whatever had
been going on in this man's head.
Finally when I couldn't cray anymore, I went downstairs and took a bus
back to ASHO.
I didn't say a word to anyone.
(From Messiah or Madman by Bent Corydon, pg 133-134)
Holy cow.
I don't remember reading that story before.
LRH was quite a freak.
It appears to have been a Crowleian sex ritual. Hubbard's entire
life appears to have been filled with pathology regarding sex.
---
http://lastliberal.org / I support privatization of religion.
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"A picture of your sanity has been on milk cartons for years." - Plethora
--
Ralph Hilton
http://www.ralphhilton.org
C-Meter: http://www.cmeter.org
FZAOINT http://www.fzaoint.net
Rev. David Rice, Esq.
2005-12-06 21:35:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Muldoon
Post by Ralph Hilton
Some stupid jackasses are willing to use any piece of crap to attack LRH.
Even critics who know that this stupid creation is a lie refrain from comment.
Hubbard's whereabouts in late 1975 are detailed in critical websites. But the ignorant are
happy to accept heresay and utter BS as truth if it makes them look better.
In late 1975 Hubbard had discreetly flown to Florida, and could have
just as discreetly made a quick trip to Southern California to survey
his newly acquired real estate holdings.
Hubbard was fully capable of such an act.
Obviously.
Post by Muldoon
Post by Ralph Hilton
This crap doesn't belong on a.c.t. but a few self righteous little pricks insist on
dumping their pathetic institutional cases there.
What's the matter Ralph? Does a woman's recounting of having been
violated - a lengthy and credible affidavit - for some reason bother
you? Do you think it might be bad for business? Or maybe for _your_
image?
Perhaps you should be more concerned with those harmed by Hubbard, than
with his or your "images."
The affidavit is creditable because of what is known about
Hubbard's mental illness, his treatment of women, his very sick
and twisted sex life, and his past abuses.

As for the woman not positively identifying Hubbard, one may point
out that Hubbard did not look like his pictures that Scientology
salespeople and staff were used to seeing; the person she
described sounds much like what Hubbard actually looked like at
the time.

I ain't saying the event "must have happened;" I am saying that it
is fully possible and completely well within likelihood
considering the rest of Hubbard's history.

---
http://lastliberal.org / I support privatization of religion.
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
Muldoon
2005-12-07 23:03:38 UTC
Permalink
As this thread seems to be continuing, the following additional
excluded info on the same topic, from the same thread, may be helpful.
Post by Muldoon
Post by Ralph Hilton
Some stupid jackasses are willing to use any piece of crap to attack LRH.
Even critics who know that this stupid creation is a lie refrain
from comment.
Hubbard's whereabouts in late 1975 are detailed in critical
websites. But the ignorant are happy to accept heresay and utter BS
as truth if it makes them look better.
In late 1975 Hubbard had discreetly flown to Florida, and could have
just as discreetly made a quick trip to Southern California to survey
his newly acquired real estate holdings.
Hubbard was fully capable of such an act.
Wups. From the Fifield Manor name, I assumed it was somewhere in the UK
like East Grinstead. My mistake. A quick trip from Florida to LA wouldn't
be impossible and wouldn't involve customs, passports or blocking him as an
undesirable.
--
Ron of that ilk.
It's not the placement of L. Ron in space and time that makes the
account less than credible for me. Nor is it the act itself, as prior
activities in his past would indicate. It's the witness. Who is she? Is
she sane, is she credible? Who knows?
Peach
Her name was Ann Baily - and she wrote a long legal affidavit. I spoke
with some one who knew her - at that time - and she was described as
being tall and aristocratic-looking with red hair.
Impossible to know if there is any connection, but around this same
time, Hubbard had been giving a series of Lectures (non-publicly) in
Florida re. "The New Vitality Rundown."
The story is noteworthy because of the credible sounding affidavit, and
Hubbard's long history of amoral behavior toward a desired objective.
Keep in mind the 1946 "Babalon Working" ritual, and Hubbard's apparent
- private - belief in a personal "Guardian Angel."
Otto Roos, in his 1984, "Write Up," as I recall, mentioned that Hubbard
would engage in private (seemingly non-Scientology related) projects.
Roos called them, "Weirdies." One was called "Angels of the Moon."
It's a gray area - but, I believe, a story worthy of re-viewing.
It can be found in the chapter, "I let him undress me without
resisting" in the book 'Messiah or Madman?' It is recommended that the
2nd or 3rd expanded and improved latter editions be consulted. (Under
pressure by Scientology to stop the book, the first 1987 edition -
essentially a rough draft - was rushed to publication.) The 3rd (1996)
edition finally has an Index - and a very interesting one.
By the way, the 2nd (1992) edition of 'Messiah or Madman?' has just
been published - in Russian, in hardback - by a Moscow printer.
Probably the first examination of the subject of abreaction as it
relates to Dianetics and Scientology, and the description of Dianetics
as a form of abreaction, can be found in the chapter, "Origins of
Dianetics." The idea that the normally therapeutic process of
abreaction can be abused and exploited is also touched upon.
Barbara Schwarz
2005-12-07 23:25:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Muldoon
As this thread seems to be continuing,
As this thread seems to be continuing, I corrected the outrageously
false subject line to a correct subject line about L. Ron Hubbard.

Barbara Schwarz
Barbara Schwarz
2005-12-06 00:18:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rev. David Rice, Esq.
Post by Simkatu
Post by Dilbert Perkins
Heidi Forrester (not her real name), ex-Sea Org, made the following
In late 1975, I was told to report to the Hubbard Communications Office.
The senior officer there at the time, informed me that I was to report
to the Fifield Manor and go to the seventh floor. She gave me no other
information. I did this without knowing why I was going.
At the Manor, I was directed to the elevator and went to the seventh
floor. The entire floor was elaborately furnished to the point of
suffocation. An S.O. member appeared and showed me to a door that was
partly open.
I went into a very large living room with heavy curtains, pile carpet,
overstuffed chairs and clean to the point of obsession.
Sitting on one of the chairs, drinking what looked like sherry, was a
heavyset older man. He had reddish grey hair, slightly long in the back.
We was wearing a white shirt, black pants, black tie, and black shoes,
highly polished.
He didn't say a word and slowly got up, motioned me to follow him into
the next room.
I didn't know if it was Hubbard, and wondered if I was to have either an
auditing session or an interview. I followed him.
I found myself in a lavish bedroom. This still didn't worry me as
sometimes interviews and sessions were held in bedrooms at the Hollywood
Inn for staff.
There was a small table set up with an E-meter on it and again I thought
about a session.
Without a word he suddenly began to undress me.
I was repelled by him.
I did not want to sleep with him. Yet, I felt really chilled and cold to
the bone at that moment.
I acutely sensed real fear and danger in the room. In an instant I
realized the calculated power coming from this person. If I resisted I
knew that my punishment would be extreme.
His eyes were so blank, no emotion, no interaction, nothing was there.
I made the decision not to resist no matter what happened. I realized it
would be a bad mistake for me to do so. He seemed to be completely
divorced from reality. He was so strange that I realized that if I
provoked him he could be extremely dangerous.
I let him undress me without resisting.
I was totally unprepared for what happened next.
He lay on top of me.
As far as i can tell he had no erection. However, using his hand in some
way he managed to get his penis inside me.
Then for the next HOUR he did absolutely nothing at all. I mean nothing!
After the first twenty-five minutes I became about as frightened as I
have ever been in my live. I felt as if in some perverse way he was
telling me that he hated me as a female. I then began to feel that my
mind was being ripped away from me by force.
That was the worst of all. I really felt he "coveted" an aspect of my
personality and he wanted it. This was weird, total control on a level I
could not fathom at that time. I had no idea what was happening.
After half an hour I really thought I was going crazy. I couldn't move
my body from underneath him, and I could feel he still had no erection.
He wouldn't look at me, but instead kept his head averted to the side
and just gazed into space.
I had to discipline myself to keep from screaming because I felt I was
having a nervous breakdown.
Then I got the terrible thought that he was dead. He was hardly
breathing. Then I thought he would kill me too. My thoughts became very
morbid.
After an hour he got up and walked out.
I just lay there for ten minutes. Then mechanically I got dressed.
Instantly after that I began crying hysterically. I cried and cried and
cried.
I wasn't afraid of becoming pregnant. I was so afraid of whatever had
been going on in this man's head.
Finally when I couldn't cray anymore, I went downstairs and took a bus
back to ASHO.
I didn't say a word to anyone.
(From Messiah or Madman by Bent Corydon, pg 133-134)
Holy cow.
I don't remember reading that story before.
LRH was quite a freak.
It appears to have been a Crowleian sex ritual. Hubbard's entire
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:26:41 GMT, "ARMYofONE"
Post by Simkatu
Not only does Barbel try to rewrite her own history, she rewrites L. Ron
Hubbards also...
"Never compromise with your own reality"
True. :)
Post by Rev. David Rice, Esq.
#6 in the "Code of honor".
http://www.scientologie.ch/wis/wiseng/33/33-hon.htm
This is why the anti-religious extremists don't win the polulation
over: THEY LIE OUTRAGEOUSLY. Just fools believe this. As more over the
top you guys are as better for Scientology. Dilbert has rabies foam all
over him when he runs his defamation series on :. Ron Hubbard that
nobody but drunks believe.

Barbara Schwarz

http://www.thunderstar.net/~Schwarz/

More about Dave Touretzky:
http://urlsnip.com/254524
http://urlsnip.com/402460

Other interesting websites:
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/
http://www.alarmgermany.org/
http://bernie.cncfamily.com/sc/sitemap.htm
http://www.cchr.org
http://www.datafilter.com/mc
http://www.freespeechstore.com
Kevin Brady
2005-12-06 00:44:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barbara Schwarz
Post by Rev. David Rice, Esq.
Post by Simkatu
Post by Dilbert Perkins
Heidi Forrester (not her real name), ex-Sea Org, made the following
In late 1975, I was told to report to the Hubbard Communications Office.
The senior officer there at the time, informed me that I was to report
to the Fifield Manor and go to the seventh floor. She gave me no other
information. I did this without knowing why I was going.
At the Manor, I was directed to the elevator and went to the seventh
floor. The entire floor was elaborately furnished to the point of
suffocation. An S.O. member appeared and showed me to a door that was
partly open.
I went into a very large living room with heavy curtains, pile carpet,
overstuffed chairs and clean to the point of obsession.
Sitting on one of the chairs, drinking what looked like sherry, was a
heavyset older man. He had reddish grey hair, slightly long in the back.
We was wearing a white shirt, black pants, black tie, and black shoes,
highly polished.
He didn't say a word and slowly got up, motioned me to follow him into
the next room.
I didn't know if it was Hubbard, and wondered if I was to have either an
auditing session or an interview. I followed him.
I found myself in a lavish bedroom. This still didn't worry me as
sometimes interviews and sessions were held in bedrooms at the Hollywood
Inn for staff.
There was a small table set up with an E-meter on it and again I thought
about a session.
Without a word he suddenly began to undress me.
I was repelled by him.
I did not want to sleep with him. Yet, I felt really chilled and cold to
the bone at that moment.
I acutely sensed real fear and danger in the room. In an instant I
realized the calculated power coming from this person. If I resisted I
knew that my punishment would be extreme.
His eyes were so blank, no emotion, no interaction, nothing was there.
I made the decision not to resist no matter what happened. I realized it
would be a bad mistake for me to do so. He seemed to be completely
divorced from reality. He was so strange that I realized that if I
provoked him he could be extremely dangerous.
I let him undress me without resisting.
I was totally unprepared for what happened next.
He lay on top of me.
As far as i can tell he had no erection. However, using his hand in some
way he managed to get his penis inside me.
Then for the next HOUR he did absolutely nothing at all. I mean nothing!
After the first twenty-five minutes I became about as frightened as I
have ever been in my live. I felt as if in some perverse way he was
telling me that he hated me as a female. I then began to feel that my
mind was being ripped away from me by force.
That was the worst of all. I really felt he "coveted" an aspect of my
personality and he wanted it. This was weird, total control on a level I
could not fathom at that time. I had no idea what was happening.
After half an hour I really thought I was going crazy. I couldn't move
my body from underneath him, and I could feel he still had no erection.
He wouldn't look at me, but instead kept his head averted to the side
and just gazed into space.
I had to discipline myself to keep from screaming because I felt I was
having a nervous breakdown.
Then I got the terrible thought that he was dead. He was hardly
breathing. Then I thought he would kill me too. My thoughts became very
morbid.
After an hour he got up and walked out.
I just lay there for ten minutes. Then mechanically I got dressed.
Instantly after that I began crying hysterically. I cried and cried and
cried.
I wasn't afraid of becoming pregnant. I was so afraid of whatever had
been going on in this man's head.
Finally when I couldn't cray anymore, I went downstairs and took a bus
back to ASHO.
I didn't say a word to anyone.
(From Messiah or Madman by Bent Corydon, pg 133-134)
Holy cow.
I don't remember reading that story before.
LRH was quite a freak.
It appears to have been a Crowleian sex ritual. Hubbard's entire
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:26:41 GMT, "ARMYofONE"
Post by Simkatu
Not only does Barbel try to rewrite her own history, she rewrites L. Ron
Hubbards also...
"Never compromise with your own reality"
True. :)
Post by Rev. David Rice, Esq.
#6 in the "Code of honor".
http://www.scientologie.ch/wis/wiseng/33/33-hon.htm
This is why the anti-religious extremists don't win the polulation
over: THEY LIE OUTRAGEOUSLY. Just fools believe this. As more over the
top you guys are as better for Scientology. Dilbert has rabies foam all
over him when he runs his defamation series on :. Ron Hubbard that
nobody but drunks believe.
Barbara Schwarz
http://www.thunderstar.net/~Schwarz/
http://urlsnip.com/254524
http://urlsnip.com/402460
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/
http://www.alarmgermany.org/
http://bernie.cncfamily.com/sc/sitemap.htm
http://www.cchr.org
http://www.datafilter.com/mc
http://www.freespeechstore.com
Barbara, you are responding to things that don't matter.

It doesn't matter if LRH fed poison to school-children: it's totally
irrelevant to whether or not the tech he developed actually helps people.

The important point is that the tech works, not whether LRH should be
appointed a saint or a sinner.
David Cary Hart
2005-12-06 01:00:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevin Brady
It doesn't matter if LRH fed poison to school-children: it's totally
irrelevant to whether or not the tech he developed actually helps people.
The important point is that the tech works, not whether LRH should be
appointed a saint or a sinner.
Really? Kindly provide one independent scientific study that confirms
that Scientology does anything for anybody other than reduce the size
of their bank account.

Scientologists delude themselves into believing what they want to
believe. By all accounts, Scientology is toxic. Devotees of the cult
substitute the cult's truth for their own and the cult's judgment for
their own.

Hubbard's reputation is very much at issue. It's pretty hard for a
discerning, thinking individual to accept that unstable, pathological
liar, sci-fi writer Hubbard could possess a unique monopoly on wisdom.
How was he worthy of such divine revelation? BTW, after all I have read
and seen I am simply amazed that I haven't contracted pneumonia.
--
Displayed Email Address is a SPAM TRAP
Our DNSRBL -
Eliminate Spam: http://www.TQMcube.com/spam_trap.php
Zombie Graphs: http://www.TQMcube.com/zombies.php
GeoGraphics: http://www.TQMcube.com/origins.php
I am being defamed here
2005-12-06 01:33:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevin Brady
Barbara, you are responding to things that don't matter.
It doesn't matter if LRH fed poison to school-children: it's totally
irrelevant to whether or not the tech he developed actually helps people.
The important point is that the tech works, not whether LRH should be
appointed a saint or a sinner.
It matters to me, Kevin.

Moreover, it Ron would have had that bad psychiatrist character, he
never would have developed the technology that actually helps people.


Barbara Schwarz

http://www.thunderstar.net/~Schwarz/

More about Dave Touretzky:
http://urlsnip.com/254524
http://urlsnip.com/402460

Other interesting websites:
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/
http://www.alarmgermany.org/
http://bernie.cncfamily.com/sc/sitemap.htm
http://www.cchr.org
http://www.datafilter.com/mc
http://www.freespeechstore.com
Kevin Brady
2005-12-06 01:37:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by I am being defamed here
Post by Kevin Brady
Barbara, you are responding to things that don't matter.
It doesn't matter if LRH fed poison to school-children: it's totally
irrelevant to whether or not the tech he developed actually helps people.
The important point is that the tech works, not whether LRH should be
appointed a saint or a sinner.
It matters to me, Kevin.
Moreover, it Ron would have had that bad psychiatrist character, he
never would have developed the technology that actually helps people.
Barbara Schwarz
Well, fine, it matters to you. But it's irrelevant to whether the tech
is effective. "psychiatrist character"? LOL! Generalities from a
supposed scio.

kgb
Ball of Fluff
2005-12-06 03:39:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevin Brady
Post by Barbara Schwarz
Post by Rev. David Rice, Esq.
Post by Simkatu
Post by Dilbert Perkins
Heidi Forrester (not her real name), ex-Sea Org, made the following
In late 1975, I was told to report to the Hubbard Communications Office.
The senior officer there at the time, informed me that I was to report
to the Fifield Manor and go to the seventh floor. She gave me no other
information. I did this without knowing why I was going.
At the Manor, I was directed to the elevator and went to the seventh
floor. The entire floor was elaborately furnished to the point of
suffocation. An S.O. member appeared and showed me to a door that was
partly open.
I went into a very large living room with heavy curtains, pile carpet,
overstuffed chairs and clean to the point of obsession.
Sitting on one of the chairs, drinking what looked like sherry, was a
heavyset older man. He had reddish grey hair, slightly long in the back.
We was wearing a white shirt, black pants, black tie, and black shoes,
highly polished.
He didn't say a word and slowly got up, motioned me to follow him into
the next room.
I didn't know if it was Hubbard, and wondered if I was to have either an
auditing session or an interview. I followed him.
I found myself in a lavish bedroom. This still didn't worry me as
sometimes interviews and sessions were held in bedrooms at the Hollywood
Inn for staff.
There was a small table set up with an E-meter on it and again I thought
about a session.
Without a word he suddenly began to undress me.
I was repelled by him.
I did not want to sleep with him. Yet, I felt really chilled and cold to
the bone at that moment.
I acutely sensed real fear and danger in the room. In an instant I
realized the calculated power coming from this person. If I resisted I
knew that my punishment would be extreme.
His eyes were so blank, no emotion, no interaction, nothing was there.
I made the decision not to resist no matter what happened. I realized it
would be a bad mistake for me to do so. He seemed to be completely
divorced from reality. He was so strange that I realized that if I
provoked him he could be extremely dangerous.
I let him undress me without resisting.
I was totally unprepared for what happened next.
He lay on top of me.
As far as i can tell he had no erection. However, using his hand in some
way he managed to get his penis inside me.
Then for the next HOUR he did absolutely nothing at all. I mean nothing!
After the first twenty-five minutes I became about as frightened as I
have ever been in my live. I felt as if in some perverse way he was
telling me that he hated me as a female. I then began to feel that my
mind was being ripped away from me by force.
That was the worst of all. I really felt he "coveted" an aspect of my
personality and he wanted it. This was weird, total control on a level I
could not fathom at that time. I had no idea what was happening.
After half an hour I really thought I was going crazy. I couldn't move
my body from underneath him, and I could feel he still had no erection.
He wouldn't look at me, but instead kept his head averted to the side
and just gazed into space.
I had to discipline myself to keep from screaming because I felt I was
having a nervous breakdown.
Then I got the terrible thought that he was dead. He was hardly
breathing. Then I thought he would kill me too. My thoughts became very
morbid.
After an hour he got up and walked out.
I just lay there for ten minutes. Then mechanically I got dressed.
Instantly after that I began crying hysterically. I cried and cried and
cried.
I wasn't afraid of becoming pregnant. I was so afraid of whatever had
been going on in this man's head.
Finally when I couldn't cray anymore, I went downstairs and took a bus
back to ASHO.
I didn't say a word to anyone.
(From Messiah or Madman by Bent Corydon, pg 133-134)
Holy cow.
I don't remember reading that story before.
LRH was quite a freak.
It appears to have been a Crowleian sex ritual. Hubbard's entire
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:26:41 GMT, "ARMYofONE"
Post by Simkatu
Not only does Barbel try to rewrite her own history, she rewrites L. Ron
Hubbards also...
"Never compromise with your own reality"
True. :)
Post by Rev. David Rice, Esq.
#6 in the "Code of honor".
http://www.scientologie.ch/wis/wiseng/33/33-hon.htm
This is why the anti-religious extremists don't win the polulation
over: THEY LIE OUTRAGEOUSLY. Just fools believe this. As more over the
top you guys are as better for Scientology. Dilbert has rabies foam all
over him when he runs his defamation series on :. Ron Hubbard that
nobody but drunks believe.
Barbara Schwarz
http://www.thunderstar.net/~Schwarz/
http://urlsnip.com/254524
http://urlsnip.com/402460
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/
http://www.alarmgermany.org/
http://bernie.cncfamily.com/sc/sitemap.htm
http://www.cchr.org
http://www.datafilter.com/mc http://www.freespeechstore.com
Barbara, you are responding to things that don't matter.
It doesn't matter if LRH fed poison to school-children: it's totally
irrelevant to whether or not the tech he developed actually helps people.
The important point is that the tech works, not whether LRH should be
appointed a saint or a sinner.
Story's fishy as hell anyway. She let him undress her and it's a big
surprise when he gets on top of her. Then she reads various emotions and
motives into what he's doing then decides to be scared of them.

Yeah, ok. Not as funny as Ace Ventura but close...

C
Muldoon
2005-12-06 09:11:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ball of Fluff
Post by Kevin Brady
Post by Barbara Schwarz
Post by Rev. David Rice, Esq.
Post by Simkatu
Post by Dilbert Perkins
Heidi Forrester (not her real name), ex-Sea Org, made the following
In late 1975, I was told to report to the Hubbard Communications Office.
The senior officer there at the time, informed me that I was to report
to the Fifield Manor and go to the seventh floor. She gave me no other
information. I did this without knowing why I was going.
At the Manor, I was directed to the elevator and went to the seventh
floor. The entire floor was elaborately furnished to the point of
suffocation. An S.O. member appeared and showed me to a door that was
partly open.
I went into a very large living room with heavy curtains, pile carpet,
overstuffed chairs and clean to the point of obsession.
Sitting on one of the chairs, drinking what looked like sherry, was a
heavyset older man. He had reddish grey hair, slightly long in the back.
We was wearing a white shirt, black pants, black tie, and black shoes,
highly polished.
He didn't say a word and slowly got up, motioned me to follow him into
the next room.
I didn't know if it was Hubbard, and wondered if I was to have either an
auditing session or an interview. I followed him.
I found myself in a lavish bedroom. This still didn't worry me as
sometimes interviews and sessions were held in bedrooms at the Hollywood
Inn for staff.
There was a small table set up with an E-meter on it and again I thought
about a session.
Without a word he suddenly began to undress me.
I was repelled by him.
I did not want to sleep with him. Yet, I felt really chilled and cold to
the bone at that moment.
I acutely sensed real fear and danger in the room. In an instant I
realized the calculated power coming from this person. If I resisted I
knew that my punishment would be extreme.
His eyes were so blank, no emotion, no interaction, nothing was there.
I made the decision not to resist no matter what happened. I realized it
would be a bad mistake for me to do so. He seemed to be completely
divorced from reality. He was so strange that I realized that if I
provoked him he could be extremely dangerous.
I let him undress me without resisting.
I was totally unprepared for what happened next.
He lay on top of me.
As far as i can tell he had no erection. However, using his hand in some
way he managed to get his penis inside me.
Then for the next HOUR he did absolutely nothing at all. I mean nothing!
After the first twenty-five minutes I became about as frightened as I
have ever been in my live. I felt as if in some perverse way he was
telling me that he hated me as a female. I then began to feel that my
mind was being ripped away from me by force.
That was the worst of all. I really felt he "coveted" an aspect of my
personality and he wanted it. This was weird, total control on a level I
could not fathom at that time. I had no idea what was happening.
After half an hour I really thought I was going crazy. I couldn't move
my body from underneath him, and I could feel he still had no erection.
He wouldn't look at me, but instead kept his head averted to the side
and just gazed into space.
I had to discipline myself to keep from screaming because I felt I was
having a nervous breakdown.
Then I got the terrible thought that he was dead. He was hardly
breathing. Then I thought he would kill me too. My thoughts became very
morbid.
After an hour he got up and walked out.
I just lay there for ten minutes. Then mechanically I got dressed.
Instantly after that I began crying hysterically. I cried and cried and
cried.
I wasn't afraid of becoming pregnant. I was so afraid of whatever had
been going on in this man's head.
Finally when I couldn't cray anymore, I went downstairs and took a bus
back to ASHO.
I didn't say a word to anyone.
(From Messiah or Madman by Bent Corydon, pg 133-134)
Holy cow.
I don't remember reading that story before.
LRH was quite a freak.
It appears to have been a Crowleian sex ritual. Hubbard's entire
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:26:41 GMT, "ARMYofONE"
Post by Simkatu
Not only does Barbel try to rewrite her own history, she rewrites L. Ron
Hubbards also...
"Never compromise with your own reality"
True. :)
Post by Rev. David Rice, Esq.
#6 in the "Code of honor".
http://www.scientologie.ch/wis/wiseng/33/33-hon.htm
This is why the anti-religious extremists don't win the polulation
over: THEY LIE OUTRAGEOUSLY. Just fools believe this. As more over the
top you guys are as better for Scientology. Dilbert has rabies foam all
over him when he runs his defamation series on :. Ron Hubbard that
nobody but drunks believe.
Barbara Schwarz
http://www.thunderstar.net/~Schwarz/
http://urlsnip.com/254524
http://urlsnip.com/402460
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/
http://www.alarmgermany.org/
http://bernie.cncfamily.com/sc/sitemap.htm
http://www.cchr.org
http://www.datafilter.com/mc http://www.freespeechstore.com
Barbara, you are responding to things that don't matter.
It doesn't matter if LRH fed poison to school-children: it's totally
irrelevant to whether or not the tech he developed actually helps people.
The important point is that the tech works, not whether LRH should be
appointed a saint or a sinner.
Do you realize how crazy and self-centered the above statement is: "It
doesn't matter if LRH fed poison to School children." It doesn't?

Has the "tech" brought you to that kind of thinking?
Post by Ball of Fluff
Story's fishy as hell anyway. She let him undress her and it's a big
surprise when he gets on top of her. Then she reads various emotions and
motives into what he's doing then decides to be scared of them.
Yeah, ok. Not as funny as Ace Ventura but close...
C
It was the finishing action on the "Babalon Working" ritual begun in
1946.

You should read the entire lengthy legal affidavit. It wasn't funny at
all.
Kevin Brady
2005-12-06 18:30:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Muldoon
Post by Ball of Fluff
Post by Kevin Brady
Post by Barbara Schwarz
Post by Rev. David Rice, Esq.
Post by Simkatu
Post by Dilbert Perkins
Heidi Forrester (not her real name), ex-Sea Org, made the following
In late 1975, I was told to report to the Hubbard Communications Office.
The senior officer there at the time, informed me that I was to report
to the Fifield Manor and go to the seventh floor. She gave me no other
information. I did this without knowing why I was going.
At the Manor, I was directed to the elevator and went to the seventh
floor. The entire floor was elaborately furnished to the point of
suffocation. An S.O. member appeared and showed me to a door that was
partly open.
I went into a very large living room with heavy curtains, pile carpet,
overstuffed chairs and clean to the point of obsession.
Sitting on one of the chairs, drinking what looked like sherry, was a
heavyset older man. He had reddish grey hair, slightly long in the back.
We was wearing a white shirt, black pants, black tie, and black shoes,
highly polished.
He didn't say a word and slowly got up, motioned me to follow him into
the next room.
I didn't know if it was Hubbard, and wondered if I was to have either an
auditing session or an interview. I followed him.
I found myself in a lavish bedroom. This still didn't worry me as
sometimes interviews and sessions were held in bedrooms at the Hollywood
Inn for staff.
There was a small table set up with an E-meter on it and again I thought
about a session.
Without a word he suddenly began to undress me.
I was repelled by him.
I did not want to sleep with him. Yet, I felt really chilled and cold to
the bone at that moment.
I acutely sensed real fear and danger in the room. In an instant I
realized the calculated power coming from this person. If I resisted I
knew that my punishment would be extreme.
His eyes were so blank, no emotion, no interaction, nothing was there.
I made the decision not to resist no matter what happened. I realized it
would be a bad mistake for me to do so. He seemed to be completely
divorced from reality. He was so strange that I realized that if I
provoked him he could be extremely dangerous.
I let him undress me without resisting.
I was totally unprepared for what happened next.
He lay on top of me.
As far as i can tell he had no erection. However, using his hand in some
way he managed to get his penis inside me.
Then for the next HOUR he did absolutely nothing at all. I mean nothing!
After the first twenty-five minutes I became about as frightened as I
have ever been in my live. I felt as if in some perverse way he was
telling me that he hated me as a female. I then began to feel that my
mind was being ripped away from me by force.
That was the worst of all. I really felt he "coveted" an aspect of my
personality and he wanted it. This was weird, total control on a level I
could not fathom at that time. I had no idea what was happening.
After half an hour I really thought I was going crazy. I couldn't move
my body from underneath him, and I could feel he still had no erection.
He wouldn't look at me, but instead kept his head averted to the side
and just gazed into space.
I had to discipline myself to keep from screaming because I felt I was
having a nervous breakdown.
Then I got the terrible thought that he was dead. He was hardly
breathing. Then I thought he would kill me too. My thoughts became very
morbid.
After an hour he got up and walked out.
I just lay there for ten minutes. Then mechanically I got dressed.
Instantly after that I began crying hysterically. I cried and cried and
cried.
I wasn't afraid of becoming pregnant. I was so afraid of whatever had
been going on in this man's head.
Finally when I couldn't cray anymore, I went downstairs and took a bus
back to ASHO.
I didn't say a word to anyone.
(From Messiah or Madman by Bent Corydon, pg 133-134)
Holy cow.
I don't remember reading that story before.
LRH was quite a freak.
It appears to have been a Crowleian sex ritual. Hubbard's entire
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 15:26:41 GMT, "ARMYofONE"
Post by Simkatu
Not only does Barbel try to rewrite her own history, she rewrites L. Ron
Hubbards also...
"Never compromise with your own reality"
True. :)
Post by Rev. David Rice, Esq.
#6 in the "Code of honor".
http://www.scientologie.ch/wis/wiseng/33/33-hon.htm
This is why the anti-religious extremists don't win the polulation
over: THEY LIE OUTRAGEOUSLY. Just fools believe this. As more over the
top you guys are as better for Scientology. Dilbert has rabies foam all
over him when he runs his defamation series on :. Ron Hubbard that
nobody but drunks believe.
Barbara Schwarz
http://www.thunderstar.net/~Schwarz/
http://urlsnip.com/254524
http://urlsnip.com/402460
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/
http://www.alarmgermany.org/
http://bernie.cncfamily.com/sc/sitemap.htm
http://www.cchr.org
http://www.datafilter.com/mc http://www.freespeechstore.com
Barbara, you are responding to things that don't matter.
It doesn't matter if LRH fed poison to school-children: it's totally
irrelevant to whether or not the tech he developed actually helps people.
The important point is that the tech works, not whether LRH should be
appointed a saint or a sinner.
Do you realize how crazy and self-centered the above statement is: "It
doesn't matter if LRH fed poison to School children." It doesn't?
Has the "tech" brought you to that kind of thinking?
Yep, it doesn't matter if LRH fed poison to school-children (if the
argument is about whether or not scientology is therapeutic, or a valid
religion, etc.). Talking about LRH's character is simply irrelevant to
the arguments. It's like talking about whether or not Bill Clinton got
blowjobs when discussing whether or not he was a good president.
Post by Muldoon
Post by Ball of Fluff
Story's fishy as hell anyway. She let him undress her and it's a big
surprise when he gets on top of her. Then she reads various emotions and
motives into what he's doing then decides to be scared of them.
Yeah, ok. Not as funny as Ace Ventura but close...
C
It was the finishing action on the "Babalon Working" ritual begun in
1946.
You should read the entire lengthy legal affidavit. It wasn't funny at
all.
Muldoon
2005-12-06 19:14:50 UTC
Permalink
-snip-
Post by Kevin Brady
Post by Muldoon
Post by Kevin Brady
Post by Dilbert Perkins
Heidi Forrester (not her real name), ex-Sea Org, made the following
In late 1975, I was told to report to the Hubbard Communications Office.
The senior officer there at the time, informed me that I was to report
to the Fifield Manor and go to the seventh floor. She gave me no other
information. I did this without knowing why I was going.
At the Manor, I was directed to the elevator and went to the seventh
floor. The entire floor was elaborately furnished to the point of
suffocation. An S.O. member appeared and showed me to a door that was
partly open.
I went into a very large living room with heavy curtains, pile carpet,
overstuffed chairs and clean to the point of obsession.
Sitting on one of the chairs, drinking what looked like sherry, was a
heavyset older man. He had reddish grey hair, slightly long in the back.
We was wearing a white shirt, black pants, black tie, and black shoes,
highly polished.
He didn't say a word and slowly got up, motioned me to follow him into
the next room.
I didn't know if it was Hubbard, and wondered if I was to have either an
auditing session or an interview. I followed him.
I found myself in a lavish bedroom. This still didn't worry me as
sometimes interviews and sessions were held in bedrooms at the Hollywood
Inn for staff.
There was a small table set up with an E-meter on it and again I thought
about a session.
Without a word he suddenly began to undress me.
I was repelled by him.
I did not want to sleep with him. Yet, I felt really chilled and cold to
the bone at that moment.
I acutely sensed real fear and danger in the room. In an instant I
realized the calculated power coming from this person. If I resisted I
knew that my punishment would be extreme.
His eyes were so blank, no emotion, no interaction, nothing was there.
I made the decision not to resist no matter what happened. I realized it
would be a bad mistake for me to do so. He seemed to be completely
divorced from reality. He was so strange that I realized that if I
provoked him he could be extremely dangerous.
I let him undress me without resisting.
I was totally unprepared for what happened next.
He lay on top of me.
As far as i can tell he had no erection. However, using his hand in some
way he managed to get his penis inside me.
Then for the next HOUR he did absolutely nothing at all. I mean nothing!
After the first twenty-five minutes I became about as frightened as I
have ever been in my live. I felt as if in some perverse way he was
telling me that he hated me as a female. I then began to feel that my
mind was being ripped away from me by force.
That was the worst of all. I really felt he "coveted" an aspect of my
personality and he wanted it. This was weird, total control on a level I
could not fathom at that time. I had no idea what was happening.
After half an hour I really thought I was going crazy. I couldn't move
my body from underneath him, and I could feel he still had no erection.
He wouldn't look at me, but instead kept his head averted to the side
and just gazed into space.
I had to discipline myself to keep from screaming because I felt I was
having a nervous breakdown.
Then I got the terrible thought that he was dead. He was hardly
breathing. Then I thought he would kill me too. My thoughts became very
morbid.
After an hour he got up and walked out.
I just lay there for ten minutes. Then mechanically I got dressed.
Instantly after that I began crying hysterically. I cried and cried and
cried.
I wasn't afraid of becoming pregnant. I was so afraid of whatever had
been going on in this man's head.
Finally when I couldn't cray anymore, I went downstairs and took a bus
back to ASHO.
I didn't say a word to anyone.
-snip-
Post by Kevin Brady
Post by Muldoon
Post by Kevin Brady
Barbara, you are responding to things that don't matter.
It doesn't matter if LRH fed poison to school-children: it's totally
irrelevant to whether or not the tech he developed actually helps people.
Did it help you erase your conscience?

Those things can sure get in the way of being happy you know.
Post by Kevin Brady
Post by Muldoon
Post by Kevin Brady
The important point is that the tech works, not whether LRH should be
appointed a saint or a sinner.
Do you realize how crazy and self-centered the above statement is: "It
doesn't matter if LRH fed poison to School children." It doesn't?
Has the "tech" brought you to that kind of thinking?
Yep, it doesn't matter if LRH fed poison to school-children (if the
argument is about whether or not scientology is therapeutic, or a valid
religion, etc.). Talking about LRH's character is simply irrelevant to
the arguments. It's like talking about whether or not Bill Clinton got
blowjobs when discussing whether or not he was a good president.
"If I get my session, I don't care what happens to...."

No conscience - and with a floating needle: The perfect Hubbard
disciple.
Kevin Brady
2005-12-06 20:37:20 UTC
Permalink
Muldoon wrote:
<snip>
Post by Muldoon
Post by Kevin Brady
Post by Muldoon
Post by Kevin Brady
Barbara, you are responding to things that don't matter.
It doesn't matter if LRH fed poison to school-children: it's totally
irrelevant to whether or not the tech he developed actually helps people.
Did it help you erase your conscience?
No, actually, it amplified my conscience.
Post by Muldoon
Those things can sure get in the way of being happy you know.
That's not true, of course. A conscience (aspect of self concerned with
moral living) is part of any non-sociopath, and any person,
scientologist or otherwise who didn't have a conscience (and abide it)
would eventually cause a total collapse of their environment
(particularly their own state of mind).
Post by Muldoon
Post by Kevin Brady
Post by Muldoon
Post by Kevin Brady
The important point is that the tech works, not whether LRH should be
appointed a saint or a sinner.
Do you realize how crazy and self-centered the above statement is: "It
doesn't matter if LRH fed poison to School children." It doesn't?
Has the "tech" brought you to that kind of thinking?
Yep, it doesn't matter if LRH fed poison to school-children (if the
argument is about whether or not scientology is therapeutic, or a valid
religion, etc.). Talking about LRH's character is simply irrelevant to
the arguments. It's like talking about whether or not Bill Clinton got
blowjobs when discussing whether or not he was a good president.
"If I get my session, I don't care what happens to...."
Did I say that? Nope. You did. I care plenty what happens to others,
and do my best to make sure that the conditions they find themselves in
are not dangerous to them. Should they be traumatized or upset or in
any way suffering, I do my damnedest to help them recover and do well in
their lives. That said, I also like to have my own sessions, yes.
Post by Muldoon
No conscience - and with a floating needle: The perfect Hubbard
disciple.
No, you have a misunderstanding of my goals and purposes. I am not a
Hubbard disciple: I'm a declared SP, and a member of a group which is
also declared as a suppressive group.

Additionally, most scientologists have a very strong conscience, and
abide it. When the Church interferes with this, and gives them
directions to do things that cause them dissonance, and they go along
with it, the Church has committed a spiritual crime against them, and
they have committed a spiritual crime by allowing themselves to be used
to destroy themselves and others. Most scientologists, luckily, are not
put in this position by the Church. Many staff-members, sooner or
later, however, are.
Muldoon
2005-12-06 23:02:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Muldoon
-snip-
Post by Kevin Brady
Post by Muldoon
Post by Kevin Brady
Post by Dilbert Perkins
Heidi Forrester (not her real name), ex-Sea Org, made the following
In late 1975, I was told to report to the Hubbard Communications Office.
The senior officer there at the time, informed me that I was to report
to the Fifield Manor and go to the seventh floor. She gave me no other
information. I did this without knowing why I was going.
At the Manor, I was directed to the elevator and went to the seventh
floor. The entire floor was elaborately furnished to the point of
suffocation. An S.O. member appeared and showed me to a door that was
partly open.
I went into a very large living room with heavy curtains, pile carpet,
overstuffed chairs and clean to the point of obsession.
Sitting on one of the chairs, drinking what looked like sherry, was a
heavyset older man. He had reddish grey hair, slightly long in the back.
We was wearing a white shirt, black pants, black tie, and black shoes,
highly polished.
He didn't say a word and slowly got up, motioned me to follow him into
the next room.
I didn't know if it was Hubbard, and wondered if I was to have either an
auditing session or an interview. I followed him.
I found myself in a lavish bedroom. This still didn't worry me as
sometimes interviews and sessions were held in bedrooms at the Hollywood
Inn for staff.
There was a small table set up with an E-meter on it and again I thought
about a session.
Without a word he suddenly began to undress me.
I was repelled by him.
I did not want to sleep with him. Yet, I felt really chilled and cold to
the bone at that moment.
I acutely sensed real fear and danger in the room. In an instant I
realized the calculated power coming from this person. If I resisted I
knew that my punishment would be extreme.
His eyes were so blank, no emotion, no interaction, nothing was there.
I made the decision not to resist no matter what happened. I realized it
would be a bad mistake for me to do so. He seemed to be completely
divorced from reality. He was so strange that I realized that if I
provoked him he could be extremely dangerous.
I let him undress me without resisting.
I was totally unprepared for what happened next.
He lay on top of me.
As far as i can tell he had no erection. However, using his hand in some
way he managed to get his penis inside me.
Then for the next HOUR he did absolutely nothing at all. I mean nothing!
After the first twenty-five minutes I became about as frightened as I
have ever been in my live. I felt as if in some perverse way he was
telling me that he hated me as a female. I then began to feel that my
mind was being ripped away from me by force.
That was the worst of all. I really felt he "coveted" an aspect of my
personality and he wanted it. This was weird, total control on a level I
could not fathom at that time. I had no idea what was happening.
After half an hour I really thought I was going crazy. I couldn't move
my body from underneath him, and I could feel he still had no erection.
He wouldn't look at me, but instead kept his head averted to the side
and just gazed into space.
I had to discipline myself to keep from screaming because I felt I was
having a nervous breakdown.
Then I got the terrible thought that he was dead. He was hardly
breathing. Then I thought he would kill me too. My thoughts became very
morbid.
After an hour he got up and walked out.
I just lay there for ten minutes. Then mechanically I got dressed.
Instantly after that I began crying hysterically. I cried and cried and
cried.
I wasn't afraid of becoming pregnant. I was so afraid of whatever had
been going on in this man's head.
Finally when I couldn't cray anymore, I went downstairs and took a bus
back to ASHO.
I didn't say a word to anyone.
-snip-
Post by Kevin Brady
Post by Muldoon
Post by Kevin Brady
Barbara, you are responding to things that don't matter.
It doesn't matter if LRH fed poison to school-children: it's totally
irrelevant to whether or not the tech he developed actually helps people.
Did it help you erase your conscience?
Those things can sure get in the way of being happy you know.
Post by Kevin Brady
Post by Muldoon
Post by Kevin Brady
The important point is that the tech works, not whether LRH should be
appointed a saint or a sinner.
Do you realize how crazy and self-centered the above statement is: "It
doesn't matter if LRH fed poison to School children." It doesn't?
Has the "tech" brought you to that kind of thinking?
Yep, it doesn't matter if LRH fed poison to school-children (if the
argument is about whether or not scientology is therapeutic, or a valid
religion, etc.). Talking about LRH's character is simply irrelevant to
the arguments. It's like talking about whether or not Bill Clinton got
blowjobs when discussing whether or not he was a good president.
"If I get my session, I don't care what happens to...."
No conscience - and with a floating needle: The perfect Hubbard
disciple.
I'm happy to discover that Keven Brady was misjudged by me in this
initial contact on a few postings. Unfortunately, I cannot edit out any
earlier comments.

That I am not infallible may disorient a few of my deepest admirers,
such as Fluff, bb, or Homer, or Les - all of whom are accustomed to my
almost always being right, but, as amazing as it may seem, it can
happen that I am mistaken.
Kevin Brady
2005-12-06 23:49:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Muldoon
Post by Muldoon
-snip-
Post by Kevin Brady
Post by Muldoon
Post by Kevin Brady
Post by Dilbert Perkins
Heidi Forrester (not her real name), ex-Sea Org, made the following
In late 1975, I was told to report to the Hubbard Communications Office.
The senior officer there at the time, informed me that I was to report
to the Fifield Manor and go to the seventh floor. She gave me no other
information. I did this without knowing why I was going.
At the Manor, I was directed to the elevator and went to the seventh
floor. The entire floor was elaborately furnished to the point of
suffocation. An S.O. member appeared and showed me to a door that was
partly open.
I went into a very large living room with heavy curtains, pile carpet,
overstuffed chairs and clean to the point of obsession.
Sitting on one of the chairs, drinking what looked like sherry, was a
heavyset older man. He had reddish grey hair, slightly long in the back.
We was wearing a white shirt, black pants, black tie, and black shoes,
highly polished.
He didn't say a word and slowly got up, motioned me to follow him into
the next room.
I didn't know if it was Hubbard, and wondered if I was to have either an
auditing session or an interview. I followed him.
I found myself in a lavish bedroom. This still didn't worry me as
sometimes interviews and sessions were held in bedrooms at the Hollywood
Inn for staff.
There was a small table set up with an E-meter on it and again I thought
about a session.
Without a word he suddenly began to undress me.
I was repelled by him.
I did not want to sleep with him. Yet, I felt really chilled and cold to
the bone at that moment.
I acutely sensed real fear and danger in the room. In an instant I
realized the calculated power coming from this person. If I resisted I
knew that my punishment would be extreme.
His eyes were so blank, no emotion, no interaction, nothing was there.
I made the decision not to resist no matter what happened. I realized it
would be a bad mistake for me to do so. He seemed to be completely
divorced from reality. He was so strange that I realized that if I
provoked him he could be extremely dangerous.
I let him undress me without resisting.
I was totally unprepared for what happened next.
He lay on top of me.
As far as i can tell he had no erection. However, using his hand in some
way he managed to get his penis inside me.
Then for the next HOUR he did absolutely nothing at all. I mean nothing!
After the first twenty-five minutes I became about as frightened as I
have ever been in my live. I felt as if in some perverse way he was
telling me that he hated me as a female. I then began to feel that my
mind was being ripped away from me by force.
That was the worst of all. I really felt he "coveted" an aspect of my
personality and he wanted it. This was weird, total control on a level I
could not fathom at that time. I had no idea what was happening.
After half an hour I really thought I was going crazy. I couldn't move
my body from underneath him, and I could feel he still had no erection.
He wouldn't look at me, but instead kept his head averted to the side
and just gazed into space.
I had to discipline myself to keep from screaming because I felt I was
having a nervous breakdown.
Then I got the terrible thought that he was dead. He was hardly
breathing. Then I thought he would kill me too. My thoughts became very
morbid.
After an hour he got up and walked out.
I just lay there for ten minutes. Then mechanically I got dressed.
Instantly after that I began crying hysterically. I cried and cried and
cried.
I wasn't afraid of becoming pregnant. I was so afraid of whatever had
been going on in this man's head.
Finally when I couldn't cray anymore, I went downstairs and took a bus
back to ASHO.
I didn't say a word to anyone.
-snip-
Post by Kevin Brady
Post by Muldoon
Post by Kevin Brady
Barbara, you are responding to things that don't matter.
It doesn't matter if LRH fed poison to school-children: it's totally
irrelevant to whether or not the tech he developed actually helps people.
Did it help you erase your conscience?
Those things can sure get in the way of being happy you know.
Post by Kevin Brady
Post by Muldoon
Post by Kevin Brady
The important point is that the tech works, not whether LRH should be
appointed a saint or a sinner.
Do you realize how crazy and self-centered the above statement is: "It
doesn't matter if LRH fed poison to School children." It doesn't?
Has the "tech" brought you to that kind of thinking?
Yep, it doesn't matter if LRH fed poison to school-children (if the
argument is about whether or not scientology is therapeutic, or a valid
religion, etc.). Talking about LRH's character is simply irrelevant to
the arguments. It's like talking about whether or not Bill Clinton got
blowjobs when discussing whether or not he was a good president.
"If I get my session, I don't care what happens to...."
No conscience - and with a floating needle: The perfect Hubbard
disciple.
I'm happy to discover that Keven Brady was misjudged by me in this
initial contact on a few postings. Unfortunately, I cannot edit out any
earlier comments.
That I am not infallible may disorient a few of my deepest admirers,
such as Fluff, bb, or Homer, or Les - all of whom are accustomed to my
almost always being right, but, as amazing as it may seem, it can
happen that I am mistaken.
No, the amazing thing to me is that you take responsibility for that,
and that you do something to investigate and correct when you perceive
what could be an error. Thanks for this statement.
roger gonnet
2005-12-05 17:57:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simkatu
Post by Dilbert Perkins
Heidi Forrester (not her real name), ex-Sea Org, made the following
In late 1975, I was told to report to the Hubbard Communications Office.
The senior officer there at the time, informed me that I was to report
to the Fifield Manor and go to the seventh floor. She gave me no other
information. I did this without knowing why I was going.
At the Manor, I was directed to the elevator and went to the seventh
floor. The entire floor was elaborately furnished to the point of
suffocation. An S.O. member appeared and showed me to a door that was
partly open.
I went into a very large living room with heavy curtains, pile carpet,
overstuffed chairs and clean to the point of obsession.
Sitting on one of the chairs, drinking what looked like sherry, was a
heavyset older man. He had reddish grey hair, slightly long in the back.
We was wearing a white shirt, black pants, black tie, and black shoes,
highly polished.
He didn't say a word and slowly got up, motioned me to follow him into
the next room.
I didn't know if it was Hubbard, and wondered if I was to have either an
auditing session or an interview. I followed him.
I found myself in a lavish bedroom. This still didn't worry me as
sometimes interviews and sessions were held in bedrooms at the Hollywood
Inn for staff.
There was a small table set up with an E-meter on it and again I thought
about a session.
Without a word he suddenly began to undress me.
I was repelled by him.
I did not want to sleep with him. Yet, I felt really chilled and cold to
the bone at that moment.
I acutely sensed real fear and danger in the room. In an instant I
realized the calculated power coming from this person. If I resisted I
knew that my punishment would be extreme.
His eyes were so blank, no emotion, no interaction, nothing was there.
I made the decision not to resist no matter what happened. I realized it
would be a bad mistake for me to do so. He seemed to be completely
divorced from reality. He was so strange that I realized that if I
provoked him he could be extremely dangerous.
I let him undress me without resisting.
I was totally unprepared for what happened next.
He lay on top of me.
As far as i can tell he had no erection. However, using his hand in some
way he managed to get his penis inside me.
Then for the next HOUR he did absolutely nothing at all. I mean nothing!
After the first twenty-five minutes I became about as frightened as I
have ever been in my live. I felt as if in some perverse way he was
telling me that he hated me as a female. I then began to feel that my
mind was being ripped away from me by force.
That was the worst of all. I really felt he "coveted" an aspect of my
personality and he wanted it. This was weird, total control on a level I
could not fathom at that time. I had no idea what was happening.
After half an hour I really thought I was going crazy. I couldn't move
my body from underneath him, and I could feel he still had no erection.
He wouldn't look at me, but instead kept his head averted to the side
and just gazed into space.
I had to discipline myself to keep from screaming because I felt I was
having a nervous breakdown.
Then I got the terrible thought that he was dead. He was hardly
breathing. Then I thought he would kill me too. My thoughts became very
morbid.
After an hour he got up and walked out.
I just lay there for ten minutes. Then mechanically I got dressed.
Instantly after that I began crying hysterically. I cried and cried and
cried.
I wasn't afraid of becoming pregnant. I was so afraid of whatever had
been going on in this man's head.
Finally when I couldn't cray anymore, I went downstairs and took a bus
back to ASHO.
I didn't say a word to anyone.
(From Messiah or Madman by Bent Corydon, pg 133-134)
Holy cow.
I don't remember reading that story before.
LRH was quite a freak.
Bent's book is still being sold at Amazon. I bought it recently: bizarre "plan"
if any, but many many good anecdotes and conclusions from his experiences.

r
Simkatu
2005-12-05 08:08:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dilbert Perkins
Heidi Forrester (not her real name), ex-Sea Org, made the following
In late 1975, I was told to report to the Hubbard Communications Office.
The senior officer there at the time, informed me that I was to report
to the Fifield Manor and go to the seventh floor. She gave me no other
information. I did this without knowing why I was going.
At the Manor, I was directed to the elevator and went to the seventh
floor. The entire floor was elaborately furnished to the point of
suffocation. An S.O. member appeared and showed me to a door that was
partly open.
I went into a very large living room with heavy curtains, pile carpet,
overstuffed chairs and clean to the point of obsession.
Sitting on one of the chairs, drinking what looked like sherry, was a
heavyset older man. He had reddish grey hair, slightly long in the back.
We was wearing a white shirt, black pants, black tie, and black shoes,
highly polished.
He didn't say a word and slowly got up, motioned me to follow him into
the next room.
I didn't know if it was Hubbard, and wondered if I was to have either an
auditing session or an interview. I followed him.
I found myself in a lavish bedroom. This still didn't worry me as
sometimes interviews and sessions were held in bedrooms at the Hollywood
Inn for staff.
There was a small table set up with an E-meter on it and again I thought
about a session.
Without a word he suddenly began to undress me.
I was repelled by him.
I did not want to sleep with him. Yet, I felt really chilled and cold to
the bone at that moment.
I acutely sensed real fear and danger in the room. In an instant I
realized the calculated power coming from this person. If I resisted I
knew that my punishment would be extreme.
His eyes were so blank, no emotion, no interaction, nothing was there.
I made the decision not to resist no matter what happened. I realized it
would be a bad mistake for me to do so. He seemed to be completely
divorced from reality. He was so strange that I realized that if I
provoked him he could be extremely dangerous.
I let him undress me without resisting.
I was totally unprepared for what happened next.
He lay on top of me.
As far as i can tell he had no erection. However, using his hand in some
way he managed to get his penis inside me.
Then for the next HOUR he did absolutely nothing at all. I mean nothing!
After the first twenty-five minutes I became about as frightened as I
have ever been in my live. I felt as if in some perverse way he was
telling me that he hated me as a female. I then began to feel that my
mind was being ripped away from me by force.
That was the worst of all. I really felt he "coveted" an aspect of my
personality and he wanted it. This was weird, total control on a level I
could not fathom at that time. I had no idea what was happening.
After half an hour I really thought I was going crazy. I couldn't move
my body from underneath him, and I could feel he still had no erection.
He wouldn't look at me, but instead kept his head averted to the side
and just gazed into space.
I had to discipline myself to keep from screaming because I felt I was
having a nervous breakdown.
Then I got the terrible thought that he was dead. He was hardly
breathing. Then I thought he would kill me too. My thoughts became very
morbid.
After an hour he got up and walked out.
I just lay there for ten minutes. Then mechanically I got dressed.
Instantly after that I began crying hysterically. I cried and cried and
cried.
I wasn't afraid of becoming pregnant. I was so afraid of whatever had
been going on in this man's head.
Finally when I couldn't cray anymore, I went downstairs and took a bus
back to ASHO.
I didn't say a word to anyone.
(From Messiah or Madman by Bent Corydon, pg 133-134)
Was Bent Corydon ever sued for publishing this?

If so, how'd the case turn out?
Dilbert Perkins
2005-12-05 09:02:15 UTC
Permalink
The book is still in print, so if he was sued, it must have turned out
in his favor.
Post by Simkatu
Post by Dilbert Perkins
Heidi Forrester (not her real name), ex-Sea Org, made the following
In late 1975, I was told to report to the Hubbard Communications Office.
The senior officer there at the time, informed me that I was to report
to the Fifield Manor and go to the seventh floor. She gave me no other
information. I did this without knowing why I was going.
At the Manor, I was directed to the elevator and went to the seventh
floor. The entire floor was elaborately furnished to the point of
suffocation. An S.O. member appeared and showed me to a door that was
partly open.
I went into a very large living room with heavy curtains, pile carpet,
overstuffed chairs and clean to the point of obsession.
Sitting on one of the chairs, drinking what looked like sherry, was a
heavyset older man. He had reddish grey hair, slightly long in the back.
We was wearing a white shirt, black pants, black tie, and black shoes,
highly polished.
He didn't say a word and slowly got up, motioned me to follow him into
the next room.
I didn't know if it was Hubbard, and wondered if I was to have either an
auditing session or an interview. I followed him.
I found myself in a lavish bedroom. This still didn't worry me as
sometimes interviews and sessions were held in bedrooms at the Hollywood
Inn for staff.
There was a small table set up with an E-meter on it and again I thought
about a session.
Without a word he suddenly began to undress me.
I was repelled by him.
I did not want to sleep with him. Yet, I felt really chilled and cold to
the bone at that moment.
I acutely sensed real fear and danger in the room. In an instant I
realized the calculated power coming from this person. If I resisted I
knew that my punishment would be extreme.
His eyes were so blank, no emotion, no interaction, nothing was there.
I made the decision not to resist no matter what happened. I realized it
would be a bad mistake for me to do so. He seemed to be completely
divorced from reality. He was so strange that I realized that if I
provoked him he could be extremely dangerous.
I let him undress me without resisting.
I was totally unprepared for what happened next.
He lay on top of me.
As far as i can tell he had no erection. However, using his hand in some
way he managed to get his penis inside me.
Then for the next HOUR he did absolutely nothing at all. I mean nothing!
After the first twenty-five minutes I became about as frightened as I
have ever been in my live. I felt as if in some perverse way he was
telling me that he hated me as a female. I then began to feel that my
mind was being ripped away from me by force.
That was the worst of all. I really felt he "coveted" an aspect of my
personality and he wanted it. This was weird, total control on a level I
could not fathom at that time. I had no idea what was happening.
After half an hour I really thought I was going crazy. I couldn't move
my body from underneath him, and I could feel he still had no erection.
He wouldn't look at me, but instead kept his head averted to the side
and just gazed into space.
I had to discipline myself to keep from screaming because I felt I was
having a nervous breakdown.
Then I got the terrible thought that he was dead. He was hardly
breathing. Then I thought he would kill me too. My thoughts became very
morbid.
After an hour he got up and walked out.
I just lay there for ten minutes. Then mechanically I got dressed.
Instantly after that I began crying hysterically. I cried and cried and
cried.
I wasn't afraid of becoming pregnant. I was so afraid of whatever had
been going on in this man's head.
Finally when I couldn't cray anymore, I went downstairs and took a bus
back to ASHO.
I didn't say a word to anyone.
(From Messiah or Madman by Bent Corydon, pg 133-134)
Was Bent Corydon ever sued for publishing this?
If so, how'd the case turn out?
Dr.Cool
2005-12-05 12:02:22 UTC
Permalink
So, someone claimed he had bad sex with her, which she didn't resist or
object to in any way, and from that alone you call him a rapist.

Notice this old trick - "I felt as if in some perverse way he was
telling me that he hated me as a female."

That is not a feeling. Feelings include happiness, sadness, fear, etc.
They don't include "he was trying to tell me in some perverse way...".
That is a belief. She didn't "feel that", she believed it. The
difference is that people tend to assume if a person says what they
felt they are making a statement of fact, feelings are always valid
type nonsense. Whereas if they state a belief we know it might be
wrong. In this case, she offers no explanation for why she drew this
conclusion. The details she gives us do not suggest it, any more than
any other explanation for Hubbard's behavior, if this is really what
happened.

"I was so afraid of whatever had been going on in this man's head."

Well she didn't know what was going on in his head did she? Was it
worthy of fear? We don't know, and neither did she. If you read this
story critically you note that even if what she says is true, no rape
happened, she has no reason to say he hates women, and she has no
reason to fear his thoughts. His behavior may be strange, but based on
what this woman says he didn't do anything all that bad. And yet, most
people would think of him as a monster based on this account alone.
Rev. Norle Enturbulata
2005-12-05 12:21:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr.Cool
So, someone claimed he had bad sex with her, which she didn't resist or
object to in any way, and from that alone you call him a rapist.
Notice this old trick - "I felt as if in some perverse way he was
telling me that he hated me as a female."
That is not a feeling. Feelings include happiness, sadness, fear, etc.
They don't include "he was trying to tell me in some perverse way...".
That is a belief. She didn't "feel that", she believed it. The
difference is that people tend to assume if a person says what they
felt they are making a statement of fact, feelings are always valid
type nonsense. Whereas if they state a belief we know it might be
wrong. In this case, she offers no explanation for why she drew this
conclusion. The details she gives us do not suggest it, any more than
any other explanation for Hubbard's behavior, if this is really what
happened.
"I was so afraid of whatever had been going on in this man's head."
Well she didn't know what was going on in his head did she? Was it
worthy of fear? We don't know, and neither did she. If you read this
story critically you note that even if what she says is true, no rape
happened, she has no reason to say he hates women, and she has no
reason to fear his thoughts. His behavior may be strange, but based on
what this woman says he didn't do anything all that bad. And yet, most
people would think of him as a monster based on this account alone.
So why did you snip whatever you were responding to? Was it in the false
belief that it would make your apparent viewpoint the only one? How about
the various underage girls who staffed the Apollo and kept the fat fraud in
Kools while he presided over the placement of children in chain lockers?

How about this item then?

"It is a woman's lot to be fornicated."
- L. Ron Hubbard
--
http://BuffaloScientologyInfo.com - http://www.xenu.net
http://PerkinsTragedy.org - http://www.xenutv.net
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
http://www.xenu.net
http://www.xenutv.com
http://www.scientology-lies.com
http://www.whyaretheydead.net
http://www.scientology-kills.org

Rev. Norle Enturbulata
"Church" of Cartoonism
*
* " You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way
you can control anybody is to lie to them."
* -- L. Ron Hubbard, "Technique 88"
*
* "...Never discuss Scientology with the critic. Just discuss his or her
crimes, known and unknown. And act completely confident that those crimes
exist...."
* L. Ron Hubbard, "Critics of Scientology", November 5, 1967
*
* "All men shall be my slaves! All women shall succumb to my charms! All
mankind shall grovel at my feet and not know why!"
- L. Ron Hubbard, "Personal Affirmations"
Dr.Cool
2005-12-05 12:56:50 UTC
Permalink
"So why did you snip whatever you were responding to?"

I didn't. Using Google to post, I need to cut and paste anything I
quote into the Reply box to include it.

"Was it in the false belief that it would make your apparent viewpoint
the only one?"

That's a ridiculous accusation, don't you think? No, I assumed others
would be capable of following a thread and seeing what I was replying
to without me needing to copy the whole thing from the post above mine
into the body of my reply. If not, you need to learn to use your
newsreader better.

"How about the various underage girls who staffed the Apollo and kept
the fat fraud in
Kools while he presided over the placement of children in chain
lockers?"

That has no bearing on this case, and I know nothing about it. I'm not
trying to defend Hubbard from all accusations here, just the OP's. If
you want to discuss that other incident, it would probably be best to
post the details in a new thread. After reading them then I'll decide
what I think of that accusation. In here, I'm discussing the rape one.

"How about this item then? "It is a woman's lot to be fornicated." - L.
Ron Hubbard "

It lacks a citation, so I can't call it anything but hearsay. But even
if he did say it, it doesn't make him a rapist. Just because you don't
like someone doesn't mean you have to believe they are guilty of
everything anyone accuses them of. In this case, according to the
woman's story, he did not rape her. Her criticisms of him were based on
essentially guessing his motivations and what was going on his head,
and unfortunately people in here seem to be persuaded by that.
Simkatu
2005-12-05 13:47:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr.Cool
"So why did you snip whatever you were responding to?"
I didn't. Using Google to post, I need to cut and paste anything I
quote into the Reply box to include it.
See url: http://tinyurl.com/e33d3

--------
Groups Help > Participating in a Group > Posting
How can I automatically quote the previous message when I post a
reply?

To quote the previous message in your reply, click the "show
options" link then the blue "Reply" link at the top of the post. The
full text of the previous message is included in the composition box
and marked with angle brackets (>) at the start of each line. You
can place your comments between lines of the quote or simply add
your thoughts at the bottom.
Post by Dr.Cool
"Was it in the false belief that it would make your apparent viewpoint
the only one?"
That's a ridiculous accusation, don't you think? No, I assumed others
would be capable of following a thread and seeing what I was replying
to without me needing to copy the whole thing from the post above mine
into the body of my reply. If not, you need to learn to use your
newsreader better.
Some people do not use threaded newsreaders. Others that do may mark
all the posts read up to a certain date and miss the one you are
replying to.

It's common courtesy to quote the people you are replying to. If you
don't want to play along, that's fine too. These are just rules (or
rather guidelines) that are considered proper netiquette that have been
in place on USENET for almost 20 years.

It's quite simple to use the quoting feature in google groups. Just
hit "SHOW OPTIONS" then hit "REPLY" and the full text will be quoted
and formatted for you properly.
Bill
2005-12-05 18:53:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr.Cool
"So why did you snip whatever you were responding to?"
I didn't. Using Google to post, I need to cut and paste anything I
quote into the Reply box to include it.
"Was it in the false belief that it would make your apparent viewpoint
the only one?"
That's a ridiculous accusation, don't you think? No, I assumed others
would be capable of following a thread and seeing what I was replying
to without me needing to copy the whole thing from the post above mine
into the body of my reply. If not, you need to learn to use your
newsreader better.
"How about the various underage girls who staffed the Apollo and kept
the fat fraud in
Kools while he presided over the placement of children in chain
lockers?"
That has no bearing on this case, and I know nothing about it. I'm not
trying to defend Hubbard from all accusations here, just the OP's. If
you want to discuss that other incident, it would probably be best to
post the details in a new thread. After reading them then I'll decide
what I think of that accusation. In here, I'm discussing the rape one.
"How about this item then? "It is a woman's lot to be fornicated." - L.
Ron Hubbard "
It lacks a citation, so I can't call it anything but hearsay. But even
if he did say it, it doesn't make him a rapist. Just because you don't
like someone doesn't mean you have to believe they are guilty of
everything anyone accuses them of. In this case, according to the
woman's story, he did not rape her. Her criticisms of him were based on
essentially guessing his motivations and what was going on his head,
and unfortunately people in here seem to be persuaded by that.
I don't know this story to be true or not. But you touched a huge nerve
with me on your blanket statement that the circumstances described
wouldn't be rape. How DARE you make such a statement? Because she
didn't put up a fight? My wife happened to be raped by a guy who took
her out in the middle of nowhere. She didn't fight back because she was
too scared. Because she didn't know what he would do to her. She
feared resisting because she was afraid for her life. So she did not
resist. But that didn't make her a willing particpant. This happened a
few months before I met her. I didn't know the story at first but the
night she told me I had never seen someone so shattered in my life. It
took years to help her through it. She's still at times a very closed
person and it's hard to get her to tell me how she feels about things.
She's very strong but she sometimes fears that I will treat her how
every other guy always has even though I've been with her for almost 14
years. And every year, on the date she was raped, I can tell without
asking that her mind is on it.

I could care less if this story is true right now. You made a statement
that I know for a fact to be false. Sex, or anything resembling sex,
against someone's will REGARDLESS of whether they resist or not is RAPE!
For you to say otherwise is about the most insensitive thing I've ever
read. I'm so damn mad right now, I can barely type this out. If this
ever happened to someone you love, you wouldn't have said it.
Dr.Cool
2005-12-05 23:37:43 UTC
Permalink
"I don't know this story to be true or not. But you touched a huge
nerve
with me on your blanket statement that the circumstances described
wouldn't be rape. How DARE you make such a statement?"

One would have to be willing to accept the social punishments and
shaming which would naturally follow it. Daring is exactly what I must
have to make a statement.

"fears that I will treat her how every other guy always has"

They all thought they were the only good guy in her life too. It's
amazing how many men think that almost every other guy is evil and that
they are sooo rare for not being that way. Truth is over 98% of men are
not violent, do not rape, and live generally moral lives.

"You made a statement that I know for a fact to be false."

Which one?

"Sex, or anything resembling sex, against someone's will REGARDLESS of
whether they resist or not is RAPE! "

Only if they communicate that it is against their will. She did not. It
is not up to him to read her mind and find out she doesn't want it. She
is responsible to communicate that to him. If she CHOOSES not to, then
she is to blame for not objecting to sex she didn't want.

"For you to say otherwise is about the most insensitive thing I've ever
read."

So you'd rather I let my emotions decide whether this is rape or not?
Be more sensitive to her feelings and fears than to the facts? I notice
you aren't at all sensitive to him or to her responsibility to actually
say no in this case. He doesn't get to defend himself here from this
accusation, so I'll assume for now the woman's story is factual.
According to it, he acted in what seems a confused manner. It seems
reasonable to suspect that he was on drugs at the time, especially
considering the woman mistook him for dead. He didn't force himself on
her and she never told him no. In his confused state, (whether it be
from drugs or not), he likely didn't notice any apprehension on the
woman's part. Besides which, with all of the programming men recieve
from the time they're born to go after sex, it's no surprise that he
did so when she was sending out mixed signals. Many women send out
mixed signals and want the man to pursue, as shown in the popular
christmas song "I must go away... but baby it's cold outside... well.
maybe just a half a drink more", which trains men not to stop until
they give a definitive no. Since she chose not to do that, how could
he, in his confused state possibly have known what she wanted? And
since he didn't move or anything, maybe he was waiting for assurance
from her. What felt to her like an hour could have felt to him like 5
minutes. In her described state of fear and his obvious confusion, it's
easy to think that time did not actually pass as quickly or slowly as
it seemed to one or both of them. So when he didn't get the signal to
continue, he got up and left, even though she had never said no.

"I'm so damn mad right now, I can barely type this out."

I suggest you calm down and let the rational part of your brain do the
analysis.

"If this ever happened to someone you love, you wouldn't have said it."

Regardless of my feelings for anyone who might be involved in a
situation like this, the fact is if neither party tells the other one
to stop, then no rape has occurred, barring exceptional circumstances
such as the use of weapons or an inability to speak.
Rev. David Rice, Esq.
2005-12-06 21:36:07 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 13:27:34 +0100, Ralph Hilton
One of the reasons this newsgroup is so FOS
Please word clear "FOS" for the rest of us. Thank you.

---
http://lastliberal.org / I support privatization of religion.
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
Rogers. D.Scn.
2005-12-05 15:06:28 UTC
Permalink
Hi Dr. Cool,

Don't know, don't particularly care at the moment, if you're a Scientologist
or not, but it seems you have a good eye and intellect.

Your comments remind me about some of my own conclusions about "date rape."

Date rape (definition): While the female is still deciding whether or not
to have sex and is uncommitted either way, sexual congress obtains,
unsatisfying-to-the-female sexual congress, that is. So, afterwards, she
thinks and thinks and thinks about that unsatisfying sex, remembers that she
never did say yes, and decides it must have been date rape. (A term/concept
obviously coined/conceived by a psychology student somewhere.)

Les.
Post by Dr.Cool
So, someone claimed he had bad sex with her, which she didn't resist or
object to in any way, and from that alone you call him a rapist.
Notice this old trick - "I felt as if in some perverse way he was
telling me that he hated me as a female."
That is not a feeling. Feelings include happiness, sadness, fear, etc.
They don't include "he was trying to tell me in some perverse way...".
That is a belief. She didn't "feel that", she believed it. The
difference is that people tend to assume if a person says what they
felt they are making a statement of fact, feelings are always valid
type nonsense. Whereas if they state a belief we know it might be
wrong. In this case, she offers no explanation for why she drew this
conclusion. The details she gives us do not suggest it, any more than
any other explanation for Hubbard's behavior, if this is really what
happened.
"I was so afraid of whatever had been going on in this man's head."
Well she didn't know what was going on in his head did she? Was it
worthy of fear? We don't know, and neither did she. If you read this
story critically you note that even if what she says is true, no rape
happened, she has no reason to say he hates women, and she has no
reason to fear his thoughts. His behavior may be strange, but based on
what this woman says he didn't do anything all that bad. And yet, most
people would think of him as a monster based on this account alone.
Muldoon
2005-12-05 15:46:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rogers. D.Scn.
Hi Dr. Cool,
Don't know, don't particularly care at the moment, if you're a Scientologist
or not, but it seems you have a good eye and intellect.
Your comments remind me about some of my own conclusions about "date rape."
Date rape (definition): While the female is still deciding whether or not
to have sex and is uncommitted either way, sexual congress obtains,
unsatisfying-to-the-female sexual congress, that is. So, afterwards, she
thinks and thinks and thinks about that unsatisfying sex, remembers that she
never did say yes, and decides it must have been date rape. (A term/concept
obviously coined/conceived by a psychology student somewhere.)
Les.
You know Les, you're making a lot of sense.

I mean the young woman _did_ walk into a _bedroom_.

She didn't know Ron was going to complete his own version of the
"Babalon Working" ritual begun 30 years earlier, but, still, "she asked
for it" didn't she Les?

Yup.


-snip-
Muldoon
2005-12-05 19:10:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Muldoon
Post by Rogers. D.Scn.
Hi Dr. Cool,
Don't know, don't particularly care at the moment, if you're a Scientologist
or not, but it seems you have a good eye and intellect.
Your comments remind me about some of my own conclusions about "date rape."
Date rape (definition): While the female is still deciding whether or not
to have sex and is uncommitted either way, sexual congress obtains,
unsatisfying-to-the-female sexual congress, that is. So, afterwards, she
thinks and thinks and thinks about that unsatisfying sex, remembers that she
never did say yes, and decides it must have been date rape. (A term/concept
obviously coined/conceived by a psychology student somewhere.)
Les.
You know Les, you're making a lot of sense.
I mean the young woman _did_ walk into a _bedroom_.
She didn't know Ron was going to complete his own version of the
"Babalon Working" ritual begun 30 years earlier, but, still, "she asked
for it" didn't she Les?
Yup.
-snip-
It occurred to me that the above might be taken the wrong way, if the
person reading is not familiar with the Les Rogers' mind-set.

Seems as though "Dr. Cool" and "Rogers. D.Scn" have a lot in common.
They're both creeps. (Sorry Les, I have to say it, but this, combined
with your idiotic denunciations of people in wheelchairs, is too much.)
l***@sbcglobal.net
2005-12-05 19:23:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rogers. D.Scn.
Hi Dr. Cool,
Don't know, don't particularly care at the moment, if you're a Scientologist
or not, but it seems you have a good eye and intellect.
Your comments remind me about some of my own conclusions about "date rape."
Date rape (definition): While the female is still deciding whether or not
to have sex and is uncommitted either way, sexual congress obtains,
unsatisfying-to-the-female sexual congress, that is. So, afterwards, she
thinks and thinks and thinks about that unsatisfying sex, remembers that she
never did say yes, and decides it must have been date rape. (A term/concept
obviously coined/conceived by a psychology student somewhere.)
Les.
That's rather straightforward. Just wondering Les, given your stated
conclusions about "date-rape", do you imagine (and or conclude) there
is no such thing as date-rape?

A simple yes or no answer would suffice, although any elaboration would
be insightful.

For example (of elaboration) if you had a daughter, and she came home
from a date crying, and told you while she had no desire nor interest
nor thought about having sex (with her date) he forced himself on her
sexually, penetration ejaculation and all. Would you really imagine
your daughter was simply re-arranging her experience of "unsatisfying
sex"? And telling you (her father) merely to punish the boy whom was
guilty of "unfulfilling her sexually"?

If so, I hope to God (so to speak) you never have a daughter #1.

And #2. if you ever do, I hope your daughter is never date-raped.

And what is your definition of rape, in general? Is it merely an
experience of unsatisying sex with a complete stranger? (in the absence
of the concept of "a date")?

I must say Les, you are indeed the Tom Cruise of this usenet group.
Which I suspect you will "conclude" is a compliment to you, and your
pontifications about the "truth" about date-rape, from a females point
of view, and or experience.

As you penned it: date rape: "a term/concept obviously coined/conceived
by a psychology student somewhere".

Lar
Rev. David Rice, Esq.
2005-12-05 17:36:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr.Cool
So, someone claimed he had bad sex with her, which she didn't resist or
object to in any way, and from that alone you call him a rapist.
You have a MU. Rape is not about "sex," either "bad" or "good."
Rape is about domination and control and that is exactly what the
testimony describes.

It was 100% rape.

---
http://lastliberal.org / I support privatization of religion.
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"A picture of your sanity has been on milk cartons for years." - Plethora
Ralph Hilton
2005-12-05 23:16:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rev. David Rice, Esq.
Post by Dr.Cool
So, someone claimed he had bad sex with her, which she didn't resist or
object to in any way, and from that alone you call him a rapist.
You have a MU. Rape is not about "sex," either "bad" or "good."
Rape is about domination and control and that is exactly what the
testimony describes.
It was 100% rape.
Do you not have the decency to refrain from posting your unwanted off-topic crap to a.c.t?
--
Ralph Hilton
http://www.ralphhilton.org
C-Meter: http://www.cmeter.org
FZAOINT http://www.fzaoint.net
Rev. David Rice, Esq.
2005-12-06 21:27:10 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 00:16:23 +0100, Ralph Hilton
Post by Ralph Hilton
Post by Rev. David Rice, Esq.
Post by Dr.Cool
So, someone claimed he had bad sex with her, which she didn't resist or
object to in any way, and from that alone you call him a rapist.
You have a MU. Rape is not about "sex," either "bad" or "good."
Rape is about domination and control and that is exactly what the
testimony describes.
It was 100% rape.
Do you not have the decency to refrain from posting your unwanted off-topic crap to a.c.t?
Do you not have the decency to turn your face toward the sun and
embrace the light of knowledge?
Post by Ralph Hilton
--
Ralph Hilton
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Ball of Fluff
2005-12-07 05:45:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rev. David Rice, Esq.
On Tue, 06 Dec 2005 00:16:23 +0100, Ralph Hilton
2005 17:36:38 GMT in
Post by Rev. David Rice, Esq.
Post by Dr.Cool
So, someone claimed he had bad sex with her, which she didn't resist or
object to in any way, and from that alone you call him a rapist.
You have a MU. Rape is not about "sex," either "bad" or "good."
Rape is about domination and control and that is exactly what the
testimony describes.
It was 100% rape.
Do you not have the decency to refrain from posting your unwanted
off-topic crap to a.c.t?
Do you not have the decency to turn your face toward the sun and
embrace the light of knowledge?
It's off topic for a.c.t. If anyone there wants to see critical stuff, they
can read a.r.s. Which I do and which Ralph H does, by the way.

I'd also not advise going to an atheist ng and telling people to repent and
believe in Jesus.

If those individuals wanted to hear the other point of view they know
exactly where to find it.

C
Zinj
2005-12-07 16:22:51 UTC
Permalink
In article <439676ea$***@news2.lightlink.com>,
***@fluffentology.com says...

<snip>
Post by Ball of Fluff
It's off topic for a.c.t. If anyone there wants to see critical stuff, they
can read a.r.s. Which I do and which Ralph H does, by the way.
I'd also not advise going to an atheist ng and telling people to repent and
believe in Jesus.
If those individuals wanted to hear the other point of view they know
exactly where to find it.
C
You seem to have an M/U on the term 'On/Off Topic'.

It's completely unrelated to 'I don't want to see that!' or 'Saying that
hurts my feelings!'

Those kinds of issues are best handled in moderated forums, and are the
*purpose* of moderated forums, where 'happy talk' can be the rule.
Discussion of Scientology and Scientology 'Tech', however, inevitably
includes discussion of the 'Source' of Scientology Tech, L. Ron Hubbard,
and all His foibles and history; positive *or* negative, since Hubbard
Himself set Himself up as the font from which all wisdom flows.

I'll admit that I find one-way dumping of 'entheta', such as practically
roboposted reposts of old material, pointless and often rude, but, not
because it's 'off topic', but because it's not *discussion*.

In any discussion of Scientology or Scientology Tech, the 'Source' of
Scientology Tech is on topic.

Zinj
--
Villains! I say to you now! Knock off all that Evil!
- The Tick
Glen Stollery (scientomogy.info)
2005-12-07 16:29:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevin Brady
<snip>
Post by Ball of Fluff
It's off topic for a.c.t. If anyone there wants to see critical stuff, they
can read a.r.s. Which I do and which Ralph H does, by the way.
I'd also not advise going to an atheist ng and telling people to repent and
believe in Jesus.
If those individuals wanted to hear the other point of view they know
exactly where to find it.
C
You seem to have an M/U on the term 'On/Off Topic'.
It's completely unrelated to 'I don't want to see that!' or 'Saying that
hurts my feelings!'
Those kinds of issues are best handled in moderated forums, and are the
*purpose* of moderated forums, where 'happy talk' can be the rule.
Discussion of Scientology and Scientology 'Tech', however, inevitably
includes discussion of the 'Source' of Scientology Tech, L. Ron Hubbard,
and all His foibles and history; positive *or* negative, since Hubbard
Himself set Himself up as the font from which all wisdom flows.
I'll admit that I find one-way dumping of 'entheta', such as practically
roboposted reposts of old material, pointless and often rude, but, not
because it's 'off topic', but because it's not *discussion*.
In any discussion of Scientology or Scientology Tech, the 'Source' of
Scientology Tech is on topic.
Zinj
--
Villains! I say to you now! Knock off all that Evil!
- The Tick
Sorry I responded and took it OT again. Corrected.
Ball of Fluff
2005-12-08 02:28:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Glen Stollery (scientomogy.info)
Post by Kevin Brady
<snip>
Post by Ball of Fluff
It's off topic for a.c.t. If anyone there wants to see critical stuff, they
can read a.r.s. Which I do and which Ralph H does, by the way.
I'd also not advise going to an atheist ng and telling people to repent and
believe in Jesus.
If those individuals wanted to hear the other point of view they know
exactly where to find it.
C
You seem to have an M/U on the term 'On/Off Topic'.
It's completely unrelated to 'I don't want to see that!' or 'Saying that
hurts my feelings!'
Those kinds of issues are best handled in moderated forums, and are the
*purpose* of moderated forums, where 'happy talk' can be the rule.
Discussion of Scientology and Scientology 'Tech', however, inevitably
includes discussion of the 'Source' of Scientology Tech, L. Ron Hubbard,
and all His foibles and history; positive *or* negative, since Hubbard
Himself set Himself up as the font from which all wisdom flows.
I'll admit that I find one-way dumping of 'entheta', such as practically
roboposted reposts of old material, pointless and often rude, but, not
because it's 'off topic', but because it's not *discussion*.
In any discussion of Scientology or Scientology Tech, the 'Source' of
Scientology Tech is on topic.
Zinj
--
Villains! I say to you now! Knock off all that Evil!
- The Tick
Sorry I responded and took it OT again. Corrected.
Pro Scn newsgroups aren't going to be interested in hearing anti Scn
viewpoints. Everyone on a.c.t. knows full well where and how to find a.r.s.

C
Zinj
2005-12-08 09:23:05 UTC
Permalink
In article <43979a57$***@news2.lightlink.com>,
***@fluffentology.com says...

<snip>
Post by Ball of Fluff
Pro Scn newsgroups aren't going to be interested in hearing anti Scn
viewpoints. Everyone on a.c.t. knows full well where and how to find a.r.s.
C
I'll repeat my original comment;

You (*still*) seem to have an M/U on the term 'On/Off Topic'.

It's completely unrelated to 'I don't want to see that!' or 'Saying that
hurts my feelings!'

Zinj
--
Villains! I say to you now! Knock off all that Evil!
- The Tick
Rogers. D.Scn.
2005-12-08 14:48:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zinj
In any discussion of Scientology or Scientology Tech, the 'Source' of
Scientology Tech is on topic.
It's not as though you don't have a reasonable point there, Zinj, but
there's a difference between talking calmly about the world's most important
educator - LRH - and the synthesizing and/or relaying of sensationalistic
accusations by vested interests (like SPs) who run on nothing but evil
intentions anyway.

No matter how many criticisms may be made of Scientology organizational
staff and procedures, the subject of Scientology itself remains a study of
those things that suppress, diminish and disempower an individual and
provide the technology to reduce or erase those things. The subject of
Scientology is entirely intended to enhance and empower the individual.
Some individuals are too psychotic to value that, on the contrary, consider
it a threat to their own status quo.

Following ancient and well-known tactics in debate (actually, something that
is easily intuited), our poor psychotic seeks to attack the subject of
Scientology by attacking the source. And man, there is nothing easier! I
mean, attacking an individual is the easiest thing in the world, that's any
individual. It's a helluva lot easier than defending.

Attacking. Easy. If one has the resources, one can create and plant
stories in media around the planet. And one can ALWAYS FIND somebody, a
number of somebodies, from the person's past who had out-rudiments in
connection with the target of attack who will present all sorts of personal
testimony to this and that (cough) "negative" aspect of the target's
character. Easy as pie!

Additionally, if you ever watched the TV series "Mission Impossible" you
should appreciate - TV series be damned - that a well-funded agency can
fabricate any dossier it desires, can create almost any illusion it desires
and project that illusion as "reality."

LRH devoted a good part of his adult life working tirelessly to help improve
and enhance each and every preclear. As part of this he became the world's
most important educator. The insane accusations against him don't ring true
and are intended only to poison his good name, induce hatred against him, in
order to undermine Scientology.

I don't believe there's a single sane country or legal system on this planet
that includes libelous hate-mongering as part of the rights to free speech.

Les.
Muldoon
2005-12-08 16:32:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rogers. D.Scn.
Post by Zinj
In any discussion of Scientology or Scientology Tech, the 'Source' of
Scientology Tech is on topic.
It's not as though you don't have a reasonable point there, Zinj, but
there's a difference between talking calmly about the world's most important
educator - LRH - and the synthesizing and/or relaying of sensationalistic
accusations by vested interests (like SPs) who run on nothing but evil
intentions anyway.
No matter how many criticisms may be made of Scientology organizational
staff and procedures, the subject of Scientology itself remains a study of
those things that suppress, diminish and disempower an individual and
provide the technology to reduce or erase those things. The subject of
Scientology is entirely intended to enhance and empower the individual.
Some individuals are too psychotic to value that, on the contrary, consider
it a threat to their own status quo.
Following ancient and well-known tactics in debate (actually, something that
is easily intuited), our poor psychotic seeks to attack the subject of
Scientology by attacking the source. And man, there is nothing easier! I
mean, attacking an individual is the easiest thing in the world, that's any
individual. It's a helluva lot easier than defending.
Attacking. Easy. If one has the resources, one can create and plant
stories in media around the planet. And one can ALWAYS FIND somebody, a
number of somebodies, from the person's past who had out-rudiments in
connection with the target of attack who will present all sorts of personal
testimony to this and that (cough) "negative" aspect of the target's
character. Easy as pie!
Additionally, if you ever watched the TV series "Mission Impossible" you
should appreciate - TV series be damned - that a well-funded agency can
fabricate any dossier it desires, can create almost any illusion it desires
and project that illusion as "reality."
LRH devoted a good part of his adult life working tirelessly to help improve
and enhance each and every preclear. As part of this he became the world's
most important educator. The insane accusations against him don't ring true
and are intended only to poison his good name, induce hatred against him, in
order to undermine Scientology.
I don't believe there's a single sane country or legal system on this planet
that includes libelous hate-mongering as part of the rights to free speech.
Les.
Another ardent defender of Hubbard/Scientology, who keeps a safe
distance from Scientology, while inviting others to participate in it.

Nonetheless, this type of intellectual self-tickling is worthy of some
study.

Note: The wearing of protective goggles is recommended for prolonged
viewing.
Dr.Cool
2005-12-06 01:17:33 UTC
Permalink
"You have a MU."

No idea what an MU is.

"Rape is not about "sex," either "bad" or "good." "

Of course it is. Rape is forced sex. Sex is in the definition.

"Rape is about domination and control and that is exactly what the
testimony describes. "

Really, then specifically what does it say he actually did to dominate
and control her?

"It was 100% rape."

Rape can not be measured on a percentage scale, either it is rape or it
isn't. She never told him it wasn't wanted. It's amazing how you people
can string him up for failing to meet his responsibility to read her
mind, yet the idea that she should have any responsibility at all to
just tell a man who is trying to have sex with her no if she doesn't
want it you react to as hate speech. If a woman had taken a man into a
room, stripped him and then laid on top of him for an hour when he
never said stop you would not call it rape, and would view his
statement that he "felt" like she was doing it out of hatred for men as
not nearly enough to actually call her a rapist.
Homer Wilson Smith
2005-12-06 05:58:07 UTC
Permalink
I am willing to give certain people retromod cancellation
privs on a.c.t if it gets out of hand.

Particularly all cross posted postings.

And anything dumped by bashers of clearing.

Homer
Post by Ralph Hilton
Some stupid jackasses are willing to use any piece of crap to attack LRH.
Even critics who know that this stupid creation is a lie refrain from comment.
Hubbard's whereabouts in late 1975 are detailed in critical websites. But the ignorant are
happy to accept heresay and utter BS as truth if it makes them look better.
This crap doesn't belong on a.c.t. but a few self righteous little pricks insist on
dumping their pathetic institutional cases there.
[Followups set to ARS only]
Post by Rev. David Rice, Esq.
Post by Simkatu
Post by Dilbert Perkins
Heidi Forrester (not her real name), ex-Sea Org, made the following
In late 1975, I was told to report to the Hubbard Communications Office.
The senior officer there at the time, informed me that I was to report
to the Fifield Manor and go to the seventh floor. She gave me no other
information. I did this without knowing why I was going.
At the Manor, I was directed to the elevator and went to the seventh
floor. The entire floor was elaborately furnished to the point of
suffocation. An S.O. member appeared and showed me to a door that was
partly open.
I went into a very large living room with heavy curtains, pile carpet,
overstuffed chairs and clean to the point of obsession.
Sitting on one of the chairs, drinking what looked like sherry, was a
heavyset older man. He had reddish grey hair, slightly long in the back.
We was wearing a white shirt, black pants, black tie, and black shoes,
highly polished.
He didn't say a word and slowly got up, motioned me to follow him into
the next room.
I didn't know if it was Hubbard, and wondered if I was to have either an
auditing session or an interview. I followed him.
I found myself in a lavish bedroom. This still didn't worry me as
sometimes interviews and sessions were held in bedrooms at the Hollywood
Inn for staff.
There was a small table set up with an E-meter on it and again I thought
about a session.
Without a word he suddenly began to undress me.
I was repelled by him.
I did not want to sleep with him. Yet, I felt really chilled and cold to
the bone at that moment.
I acutely sensed real fear and danger in the room. In an instant I
realized the calculated power coming from this person. If I resisted I
knew that my punishment would be extreme.
His eyes were so blank, no emotion, no interaction, nothing was there.
I made the decision not to resist no matter what happened. I realized it
would be a bad mistake for me to do so. He seemed to be completely
divorced from reality. He was so strange that I realized that if I
provoked him he could be extremely dangerous.
I let him undress me without resisting.
I was totally unprepared for what happened next.
He lay on top of me.
As far as i can tell he had no erection. However, using his hand in some
way he managed to get his penis inside me.
Then for the next HOUR he did absolutely nothing at all. I mean nothing!
After the first twenty-five minutes I became about as frightened as I
have ever been in my live. I felt as if in some perverse way he was
telling me that he hated me as a female. I then began to feel that my
mind was being ripped away from me by force.
That was the worst of all. I really felt he "coveted" an aspect of my
personality and he wanted it. This was weird, total control on a level I
could not fathom at that time. I had no idea what was happening.
After half an hour I really thought I was going crazy. I couldn't move
my body from underneath him, and I could feel he still had no erection.
He wouldn't look at me, but instead kept his head averted to the side
and just gazed into space.
I had to discipline myself to keep from screaming because I felt I was
having a nervous breakdown.
Then I got the terrible thought that he was dead. He was hardly
breathing. Then I thought he would kill me too. My thoughts became very
morbid.
After an hour he got up and walked out.
I just lay there for ten minutes. Then mechanically I got dressed.
Instantly after that I began crying hysterically. I cried and cried and
cried.
I wasn't afraid of becoming pregnant. I was so afraid of whatever had
been going on in this man's head.
Finally when I couldn't cray anymore, I went downstairs and took a bus
back to ASHO.
I didn't say a word to anyone.
(From Messiah or Madman by Bent Corydon, pg 133-134)
Holy cow.
I don't remember reading that story before.
LRH was quite a freak.
It appears to have been a Crowleian sex ritual. Hubbard's entire
life appears to have been filled with pathology regarding sex.
---
http://lastliberal.org / I support privatization of religion.
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"A picture of your sanity has been on milk cartons for years." - Plethora
--
Ralph Hilton
http://www.ralphhilton.org
C-Meter: http://www.cmeter.org
FZAOINT http://www.fzaoint.net
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homer Wilson Smith The Paths of Lovers Art Matrix - Lightlink
(607) 277-0959 KC2ITF Cross Internet Access, Ithaca NY
***@lightlink.com In the Line of Duty http://www.lightlink.com
Rogers. D.Scn.
2005-12-06 16:19:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Homer Wilson Smith
I am willing to give certain people retromod cancellation
privs on a.c.t if it gets out of hand.
Particularly all cross posted postings.
And anything dumped by bashers of clearing.
Oh, you probably don't need to go to that much trouble, Homer. There's
really only a handful SPs. Sure, regular critics might occasionally
erroneously quote some lying entheta that they've come across, but they're
not in a continuous "calculate the most destructive button-pushing effect"
mode all the time. Not like an SP is.

Well, you know me, I make no secret of the fact that I consider critics of
the subject of Scientology (the subject!) are themselves (temporarily or
circumstantially) no-cognition cases, and that these are often easy targets
for alliance by the true SPs. But SPs have their own unique
characteristics, and often calculating psychosis comes across as intelligent
impartiality and detachedness. And 1.1 - when combined with calculation -
easily mocks conservatism.

For the record, I have been a participant on ACT since about 1998, and in
addition to many pleasant and agreeable interchanges at times, I have had
heated discussion and occasional outright arguments with various terminals.
However, I haven't, and don't intend, to just simply categorize each and
every person who has a different perspective as an SP. For many years, I
only had ONE SP identified (and honestly, it is DAMN HARD to spot these guys
really, them being so "clever" and devious), namely, Phil Scott. And, I
forget the exact order, but it seems like a couple of years ago I added
Dilbert Perkins to the list, then maybe, last year, Muldoon. And now it's
looking to me like Lamoore is of the same persuasion.

But, even with Lamoore, that's only FOUR guys in seven years!

And, ahhhh! I remember back to the total obnoxiousness (at times) of, say,
Konchok Penday - the poor squirrelly piece of shit (ha ha) - but HE didn't
make it into my SP category because, well, there IS a key difference
(differences) between a squirrel and an SP.

Oh, one day I should write up my own rendition of SP poster characteristics,
perhaps elaborate on the common ploys used, but I daresay "1.1" covers the
common denominator I suppose. "Covert hostility" describing the phenomena
pretty well. Encompasses calculated "low blows" at the ankle bone level -
as I said, all in the ambience of conservative detachedness.

It is both amazing and scary how SPs can wheedle themselves into good
graces, and how patient they can be before they insert the first barb.
Practice born over many eons in many cases.

Les.
Ralph Hilton
2005-12-08 18:37:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Homer Wilson Smith
I am willing to give certain people retromod cancellation
privs on a.c.t if it gets out of hand.
Particularly all cross posted postings.
And anything dumped by bashers of clearing.
It looks like there are a few little shits cross postings here who have no respect for
others. It does seem to be time for such an action. How would you implement it?
--
Ralph Hilton
http://www.ralphhilton.org
C-Meter: http://www.cmeter.org
FZAOINT http://www.fzaoint.net
Ball of Fluff
2005-12-09 03:58:21 UTC
Permalink
00:58:07 -0500 in msg
Post by Homer Wilson Smith
I am willing to give certain people retromod cancellation
privs on a.c.t if it gets out of hand.
Particularly all cross posted postings.
And anything dumped by bashers of clearing.
It looks like there are a few little shits cross postings here who have no respect for
others. It does seem to be time for such an action. How would you implement it?
--
what are retromed thingies?

C
Homer Wilson Smith
2005-12-10 18:52:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph Hilton
Post by Homer Wilson Smith
I am willing to give certain people retromod cancellation
privs on a.c.t if it gets out of hand.
Particularly all cross posted postings.
And anything dumped by bashers of clearing.
It looks like there are a few little shits cross postings here who have no respect for
others. It does seem to be time for such an action. How would you implement it?
Dunno. One issue come to mind, which is nuking a posting on
lightlink won't cancel it on the rest of the net. I can't get into
that.

Also most of these cross post threads die out eventually.

I could auto nuke any cross posted articles using the lazarus
system that is dormant at the moment but still functional.

I could create an e-mail address that trusted users could e-mail
nukable articles to and it would retro nuke the article. But then we
are into content negotiation. If someone wants to multiple post to
a.c.t and a.r.s I would guess the effort will probably wear them out
after a while and they will give it up. Do news readers allow easy
multiple posting?

But again it only cleans up lightlink's server after the fact.

Usually just threatening action is enough to get rid of the cross
posters.

Homer
Post by Ralph Hilton
--
Ralph Hilton
http://www.ralphhilton.org
C-Meter: http://www.cmeter.org
FZAOINT http://www.fzaoint.net
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homer Wilson Smith The Paths of Lovers Art Matrix - Lightlink
(607) 277-0959 KC2ITF Cross Internet Access, Ithaca NY
***@lightlink.com In the Line of Duty http://www.lightlink.com
Ball of Fluff
2005-12-10 19:01:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Homer Wilson Smith
00:58:07 -0500 in msg
Post by Homer Wilson Smith
I am willing to give certain people retromod cancellation
privs on a.c.t if it gets out of hand.
Particularly all cross posted postings.
And anything dumped by bashers of clearing.
It looks like there are a few little shits cross postings here who have no respect for
others. It does seem to be time for such an action. How would you implement it?
Dunno. One issue come to mind, which is nuking a posting on
lightlink won't cancel it on the rest of the net. I can't get into
that.
Also most of these cross post threads die out eventually.
Except for Dilbert. He has posted this stuff a long time. Persistently. He
was asked to leave it out of a.c.t. by several people here and then he
stopped. He now started up again and has indicated he is deliberately
including a.c.t. in his L Ron Hubbard The... posts.

He's not gonna stop.

And if you nuke cross posted articles, he'll likely pull up a.c.t. and post
stand alone posts of L Ron Hubard the so and so and you'll still have this
stuff here.

C
Ralph Hilton
2005-12-10 23:46:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ball of Fluff
Post by Homer Wilson Smith
00:58:07 -0500 in msg
Post by Homer Wilson Smith
I am willing to give certain people retromod cancellation
privs on a.c.t if it gets out of hand.
Particularly all cross posted postings.
And anything dumped by bashers of clearing.
It looks like there are a few little shits cross postings here who have no respect for
others. It does seem to be time for such an action. How would you implement it?
Dunno. One issue come to mind, which is nuking a posting on
lightlink won't cancel it on the rest of the net. I can't get into
that.
Also most of these cross post threads die out eventually.
Except for Dilbert. He has posted this stuff a long time. Persistently. He
was asked to leave it out of a.c.t. by several people here and then he
stopped. He now started up again and has indicated he is deliberately
including a.c.t. in his L Ron Hubbard The... posts.
He's not gonna stop.
And if you nuke cross posted articles, he'll likely pull up a.c.t. and post
stand alone posts of L Ron Hubard the so and so and you'll still have this
stuff here.
I would say that Homer is entitled to globally cancel posts that are off topic on a.c.t.

Dickbrains like Pilbert Dorkins could be autocancelled with a simple bit of Perl or
whatever on the server.

Or, if Homer wishes to provide a facility for some to retro cancel the BS, then a few of
us could take it on. Guidelines would have to be agreed upon. My feeling is that purely
negative tech bashing such as from Dorkie should be first and then enforce the charter for
a.c.t. with cancellations on a gradient with warnings first.


--
Ralph Hilton
http://www.ralphhilton.org
C-Meter: http://www.cmeter.org
FZAOINT http://www.fzaoint.net
Muldoon
2005-12-11 05:11:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph Hilton
Post by Ball of Fluff
Post by Homer Wilson Smith
Post by Ralph Hilton
Post by Homer Wilson Smith
I am willing to give certain people retromod cancellation
privs on a.c.t if it gets out of hand.
Particularly all cross posted postings.
And anything dumped by bashers of clearing.
It looks like there are a few little shits cross postings here who have no
respect for
others. It does seem to be time for such an action. How would you implement it?
Dunno. One issue come to mind, which is nuking a posting on
lightlink won't cancel it on the rest of the net. I can't get into
that.
Also most of these cross post threads die out eventually.
Except for Dilbert. He has posted this stuff a long time. Persistently. He
was asked to leave it out of a.c.t. by several people here and then he
stopped. He now started up again and has indicated he is deliberately
including a.c.t. in his L Ron Hubbard The... posts.
He's not gonna stop.
And if you nuke cross posted articles, he'll likely pull up a.c.t. and post
stand alone posts of L Ron Hubard the so and so and you'll still have this
stuff here.
I would say that Homer is entitled to globally cancel posts that are off topic on a.c.t.
Dickbrains like Pilbert Dorkins could be autocancelled with a simple bit of Perl or
whatever on the server.
Or, if Homer wishes to provide a facility for some to retro cancel the BS, then a few of
us could take it on. Guidelines would have to be agreed upon. My feeling is that purely
negative tech bashing such as from Dorkie should be first and then enforce the charter for
a.c.t. with cancellations on a gradient with warnings first.
--
Ralph Hilton
http://www.ralphhilton.org
C-Meter: http://www.cmeter.org
FZAOINT http://www.fzaoint.net
Ralph has a Napoleon-complex combined with an apparent incapacity to
write a message without a schoolyard vulgarity.

For insight into his mind-set google "Ralph Hilton, Plonk."

Ralph inevitably advertises himself with his pervasive commercial URLs,
using any excuse to deposit them, even in places where he no shared
interest.

Personally, I regard Ralph as an insincere peddler of what he knows to
be a defective and, ultimately, spiritually toxic Xenu/Hubbard
"Bridge." It ascends at the beginning, levels out, and slowly tilts
downward into a bleak Hubbardian swamp, probably better described as a
rancid puddle. But this is not about the aspiring thought-dictator
Ralph, but about freedom; and not so much the "right" to freedom, but
the wisdom in allowing freedom, in spite of its occasional annoyances,
in recognition of freedom's life-stimulating and perspective-providing
capacity.

Cross posting is occasional, can be annoying, is also sometimes
enlivening and positive.

It serves as a kind of cross pollination.

This is a good thing, in my humble opinion.
Barbara Schwarz
2005-12-11 05:35:54 UTC
Permalink
00:58:07 -0500 in msg
I just correct the false subject line.

Barbara Schwarz
--
http://www.thunderstar.net/~Schwarz/
More about Dave Touretzky:
http://urlsnip.com/254524
http://urlsnip.com/402460

Other interesting websites:
http://www.religiousfreedomwatch.org/extremists/
http://www.alarmgermany.org/
http://bernie.cncfamily.com/sc/sitemap.htm
http://www.cchr.org
http://www.MindFreedom.ORG/
http://www.datafilter.com/mc
http://www.freespeechstore.com
Ball of Fluff
2005-12-11 17:29:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Muldoon
Post by Ralph Hilton
Post by Ball of Fluff
Post by Homer Wilson Smith
Post by Ralph Hilton
Post by Homer Wilson Smith
I am willing to give certain people retromod cancellation
privs on a.c.t if it gets out of hand.
Particularly all cross posted postings.
And anything dumped by bashers of clearing.
It looks like there are a few little shits cross postings here who have no
respect for
others. It does seem to be time for such an action. How would you implement it?
Dunno. One issue come to mind, which is nuking a posting on
lightlink won't cancel it on the rest of the net. I can't get into
that.
Also most of these cross post threads die out eventually.
Except for Dilbert. He has posted this stuff a long time. Persistently. He
was asked to leave it out of a.c.t. by several people here and then he
stopped. He now started up again and has indicated he is deliberately
including a.c.t. in his L Ron Hubbard The... posts.
He's not gonna stop.
And if you nuke cross posted articles, he'll likely pull up a.c.t. and post
stand alone posts of L Ron Hubard the so and so and you'll still have this
stuff here.
I would say that Homer is entitled to globally cancel posts that are off topic on a.c.t.
Dickbrains like Pilbert Dorkins could be autocancelled with a simple bit of Perl or
whatever on the server.
Or, if Homer wishes to provide a facility for some to retro cancel the BS, then a few of
us could take it on. Guidelines would have to be agreed upon. My feeling is that purely
negative tech bashing such as from Dorkie should be first and then
enforce the charter for
a.c.t. with cancellations on a gradient with warnings first.
--
Ralph Hilton
http://www.ralphhilton.org
C-Meter: http://www.cmeter.org
FZAOINT http://www.fzaoint.net
Ralph has a Napoleon-complex combined with an apparent incapacity to
write a message without a schoolyard vulgarity.
He's talking about some things Homer has stated he's concerned with. Namely,
Dilbert's SPAM of a.c.t.
Post by Muldoon
For insight into his mind-set google "Ralph Hilton, Plonk."
Yes, you've said that before.

Nothing wrong with plonking people who one thinks are assholes or who
otherwise don't seem to add anything to the equation. One has the right to
tailor one's own newsreader.

And Homer has the right to keep Dilbert's off topic crap off a.c.t.

We asked Dilbert last year to stop doing it, and he did stop.

Now he's indicated he is deliberately including a.c.t. in these L Ron the
... postings. Well, Homer doesn't want 'em there. Neither does Ralph,
neither do I and neither do the people who complained last year.
Post by Muldoon
Ralph inevitably advertises himself with his pervasive commercial URLs,
using any excuse to deposit them, even in places where he no shared
interest.
Ralph was a big help to me after my parents died. I am fond of him and
always will be.

C
Ball of Fluff
2005-12-11 17:26:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ralph Hilton
Post by Ball of Fluff
Post by Homer Wilson Smith
00:58:07 -0500 in msg
Post by Homer Wilson Smith
I am willing to give certain people retromod cancellation
privs on a.c.t if it gets out of hand.
Particularly all cross posted postings.
And anything dumped by bashers of clearing.
It looks like there are a few little shits cross postings here who have
no
respect for
others. It does seem to be time for such an action. How would you implement it?
Dunno. One issue come to mind, which is nuking a posting on
lightlink won't cancel it on the rest of the net. I can't get into
that.
Also most of these cross post threads die out eventually.
Except for Dilbert. He has posted this stuff a long time. Persistently. He
was asked to leave it out of a.c.t. by several people here and then he
stopped. He now started up again and has indicated he is deliberately
including a.c.t. in his L Ron Hubbard The... posts.
He's not gonna stop.
And if you nuke cross posted articles, he'll likely pull up a.c.t. and post
stand alone posts of L Ron Hubard the so and so and you'll still have this
stuff here.
I would say that Homer is entitled to globally cancel posts that are off topic on a.c.t.
Agreed.
Post by Ralph Hilton
Dickbrains like Pilbert Dorkins could be autocancelled with a simple bit of Perl or
whatever on the server.
Good!
Post by Ralph Hilton
Or, if Homer wishes to provide a facility for some to retro cancel the BS, then a few of
us could take it on. Guidelines would have to be agreed upon. My feeling is that purely
negative tech bashing such as from Dorkie should be first and then enforce the charter for
a.c.t. with cancellations on a gradient with warnings first.
Interesting.

Thanks, Ralphie.

C
Homer Wilson Smith
2005-12-12 03:24:36 UTC
Permalink
I personally have yet to hear one useful posting from Muldoon,
and would recommend we start by nuking him.

All he does is criticize other's postings, he never originates as
far as I know tech of his own, wins, anything at all positive about
clearing.

Homer
Post by Muldoon
Post by Ralph Hilton
Post by Ball of Fluff
Post by Homer Wilson Smith
00:58:07 -0500 in msg
Post by Homer Wilson Smith
I am willing to give certain people retromod cancellation
privs on a.c.t if it gets out of hand.
Particularly all cross posted postings.
And anything dumped by bashers of clearing.
It looks like there are a few little shits cross postings here who have no
respect for
others. It does seem to be time for such an action. How would you
implement it?
Dunno. One issue come to mind, which is nuking a posting on
lightlink won't cancel it on the rest of the net. I can't get into
that.
Also most of these cross post threads die out eventually.
Except for Dilbert. He has posted this stuff a long time. Persistently. He
was asked to leave it out of a.c.t. by several people here and then he
stopped. He now started up again and has indicated he is deliberately
including a.c.t. in his L Ron Hubbard The... posts.
He's not gonna stop.
And if you nuke cross posted articles, he'll likely pull up a.c.t. and post
stand alone posts of L Ron Hubard the so and so and you'll still have this
stuff here.
I would say that Homer is entitled to globally cancel posts that are off topic on a.c.t.
Dickbrains like Pilbert Dorkins could be autocancelled with a simple bit of Perl or
whatever on the server.
Or, if Homer wishes to provide a facility for some to retro cancel the BS, then a few of
us could take it on. Guidelines would have to be agreed upon. My feeling is that purely
negative tech bashing such as from Dorkie should be first and then enforce the charter for
a.c.t. with cancellations on a gradient with warnings first.
--
Ralph Hilton
http://www.ralphhilton.org
C-Meter: http://www.cmeter.org
FZAOINT http://www.fzaoint.net
Ralph has a Napoleon-complex combined with an apparent incapacity to
write a message without a schoolyard vulgarity.
For insight into his mind-set google "Ralph Hilton, Plonk."
Ralph inevitably advertises himself with his pervasive commercial URLs,
using any excuse to deposit them, even in places where he no shared
interest.
Personally, I regard Ralph as an insincere peddler of what he knows to
be a defective and, ultimately, spiritually toxic Xenu/Hubbard
"Bridge." It ascends at the beginning, levels out, and slowly tilts
downward into a bleak Hubbardian swamp, probably better described as a
rancid puddle. But this is not about the aspiring thought-dictator
Ralph, but about freedom; and not so much the "right" to freedom, but
the wisdom in allowing freedom, in spite of its occasional annoyances,
in recognition of freedom's life-stimulating and perspective-providing
capacity.
Cross posting is occasional, can be annoying, is also sometimes
enlivening and positive.
It serves as a kind of cross pollination.
This is a good thing, in my humble opinion.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homer Wilson Smith The Paths of Lovers Art Matrix - Lightlink
(607) 277-0959 KC2ITF Cross Internet Access, Ithaca NY
***@lightlink.com In the Line of Duty http://www.lightlink.com
nobody
2005-12-12 03:50:46 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@adore.lightlink.com>,
Homer Wilson Smith says...
Post by Homer Wilson Smith
I personally have yet to hear one useful posting from Muldoon,
and would recommend we start by nuking him.
Just killfile him if he bothers you so much.
Post by Homer Wilson Smith
All he does is criticize other's postings, he never originates as
far as I know tech of his own, wins, anything at all positive about
clearing.
Homer
'Clearing' is a joke. I get a win from saying so. And I get wins from
pointing out that Homer Wilson Smith is a censor.
nobody
2005-12-12 17:04:27 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@adore.lightlink.com>,
Homer Wilson Smith says...
Post by Homer Wilson Smith
All he does is criticize other's postings, he never originates as
far as I know tech of his own, wins, anything at all positive about
clearing.
Homer
Use a killfile you whiny little prick.
Michael
2005-12-12 17:50:15 UTC
Permalink
Hi
I just looked up killfile on the internet at:
http://www.dickalba.demon.co.uk/usenet/guide/faq_fwit.html

and discovered a really nice word "fuckwit" this is not a swearword so it
says, definition:

Regardless of its origins, the term 'fuckwit' has now become a newsgroup
term for someone who repeatedly and consistantly proves themselves totally
impervious to clue, 'clue' being defined as knowledge, enlightenment,
advice.
The Fuckwit website describes them as "those sad, strange or egocentric
people; who after having had some education on technical, custom or
procedural points simply fail to absorb the advice. They fail to understand
or accept the clues offered."

I like it :-)))
Mike
Post by nobody
Homer Wilson Smith says...
Post by Homer Wilson Smith
All he does is criticize other's postings, he never originates as
far as I know tech of his own, wins, anything at all positive about
clearing.
Homer
Use a killfile you whiny little prick.
nobody
2005-12-12 20:01:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Hi
http://www.dickalba.demon.co.uk/usenet/guide/faq_fwit.html
and discovered a really nice word "fuckwit" this is not a swearword so it
Regardless of its origins, the term 'fuckwit' has now become a newsgroup
term for someone who repeatedly and consistantly proves themselves totally
impervious to clue, 'clue' being defined as knowledge, enlightenment,
advice.
The Fuckwit website describes them as "those sad, strange or egocentric
people; who after having had some education on technical, custom or
procedural points simply fail to absorb the advice. They fail to understand
or accept the clues offered."
I like it :-)))
Mike
Well maybe Homer 'Fuckwit' Smith will take advice and use a killfile.
Post by Michael
Post by nobody
Homer Wilson Smith says...
Post by Homer Wilson Smith
All he does is criticize other's postings, he never originates as
far as I know tech of his own, wins, anything at all positive about
clearing.
Homer
Use a killfile you whiny little prick.
Homer Wilson Smith
2005-12-12 03:46:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ball of Fluff
Nothing wrong with plonking people who one thinks are assholes or who
otherwise don't seem to add anything to the equation. One has the right to
tailor one's own newsreader.
One would probably want to take a vote before retro canceling
articles on a person. Not on an article by article basis but on
overall anti quality of their postings.

This group is definitely not for meatballs bashing what they have
no clue about.

However trying to filter criticism of Hubbard as off topic would
depend on the quality of that criticism. Hell I might end up in the
dump bucket myself.

There are private mailing lists for those that want a moderated
environment. That they keep themselves private and don't feed their
postings into a.c.t is still a mystery to me.

Historically there are 3 people that I have been asked to
squelch, Koos, KP and Phil Scott.

I was never willing to take action against these three because in
spite of their serious short comings they were pro clearing, and had
something of technical merit to post.

KP was in my opinion the most destructive of the posters, of
course nothing a little kill file couldn't handle, but even KP had a
lot to say about tech.

Koos posted spot on stuff but mostly directed at wrong targets,
and eventually he ended up in the looney bin from wrong indications.

Phil, well, he continues to post sweeping generalizations and
confusions about the upper levels (little fat boy with wings and a
bugle) while meticulously preening his integrity to 100 percent
perfection.
Post by Ball of Fluff
And Homer has the right to keep Dilbert's off topic crap off a.c.t.
I do not wish a.c.t. to become a problem to me, it was created
to be a solution. Lot's of people can start a war to make it problem.
Trying to fight with a BT is a hopeless cause, they can out spew
anyone's effort to stop the spew.

Basic questions to ask of a BT are

Who are you? Who am I?
What are you? What am I?
Where are you? Where am I?
When are you? When am I?
How many are you? How many am I?
What is your intent? What is my intent?
What is your desire? What is my desire?
Who are you working for? Who am I working for?
How can you serve me? How can I serve you?

That will take care of 95 percent of them, the rest are buggers
of serious concern to which I don't have an immediate answer.
Post by Ball of Fluff
Post by Muldoon
Ralph inevitably advertises himself with his pervasive commercial URLs,
using any excuse to deposit them, even in places where he no shared
interest.
Ralph was a big help to me after my parents died. I am fond of him and
always will be.
Ralph is a good man.

You can tell the losers by the bashing, the generalizations, the
pseudo scientific spew about debunking this and that. It's all a
recording being played off by unconsious automatons, who aren't even
certain of their own existence and the significance that certainty of
existence leads to.

Homer

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homer Wilson Smith The Paths of Lovers Art Matrix - Lightlink
(607) 277-0959 KC2ITF Cross Internet Access, Ithaca NY
***@lightlink.com In the Line of Duty http://www.lightlink.com
nobody
2005-12-12 04:49:37 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@adore.lightlink.com>,
Homer Wilson Smith says...
Post by Homer Wilson Smith
This group is definitely not for meatballs bashing what they have
no clue about.
Same could be (and is) said about you.
Post by Homer Wilson Smith
However trying to filter criticism of Hubbard as off topic would
depend on the quality of that criticism. Hell I might end up in the
dump bucket myself.
Your head's already in the toilet and the rest of your meat is following.
The problem with you Homer is you're a censor who's having trouble
trying to justify your position. Why don't you just come out from the
closet and admit it?
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